4 ms·

In France, there is a TV show called Motus which is basically the same as Wordle but with 8-letter words (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motus_(jeu_t%C3%A9l%C3%A

by pil0u 5y ago

In France, there is a TV show called Motus which is basically the same as Wordle but with 8-letter words (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motus_(jeu_t%C3%A9l%C3%A9vis%C3%A9) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motus_(jeu_t%C3%A9l%C3%A9vis%C...) Two young CS researchers took part in the competition after building their home-made algorithm (I suppose based on tree search) to find optimal words to search for, given the constraints. They learnt these optimal words/paths by heart before the show. They never lost a game. Opponents scores were embarrassingly low, they actually broke the game. It was also very funny to watch because they spelled words that most people didn't know they exist. I'll edit if I can find a video link (which is surprisingly struggling).

desdiv 5y ago
>It was also very funny to watch because they spelled words that most people didn't know they exist. This kinda reminds me of the New Zealand Scrabble player who won multiple French World Scrabble Championships despite not speaking French. He just memorized the French Scrabble dictionary. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Richards_(Scrabble_player) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Richards_(Scrabble_playe...
a_imho 5y ago
In Hungary we have this table top game, iiuc this has the same mechanics just with colors. It was (maybe still is) popular in primary school aged 8-12. https://okosjatek.cdn.shoprenter.hu/custom/okosjatek/image/data/product/Retro%20j%C3%A1t%C3%A9kok/retro_mesterlogika_kek_550_550.jpg?lastmod=1631023233.1639238329 https://okosjatek.cdn.shoprenter.hu/custom/okosjatek/image/d...
- jhgb 5y ago
  Basically Mastermind. We had Logik instead: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logik_(hra) https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logik_(hra) But in Mastermind, you for example aren't told which pins are in correct positions, whereas in Wordle you are told that.
- croon 5y ago
  Yes, it's called Mastermind [0]. Just fewer colors than letters. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game)
  - schnitzelstoat 5y ago
    I'd argue it's harder though as colors can form any sequence - they don't have to form legal words.
    - theFco 5y ago
      I'd argue that at the same time it is easier because you do not need to find valid colour sequences (in wordle you can only enter actual words to explore the solution). I wonder if the result is easier or harder overall?
  - dekhn 5y ago
    And for the nerds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game)#Worst_case:_Five-guess_algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game)#Worst_... (Knuth) and In November 2004, Michiel de Bondt proved that solving a Mastermind board is an NP-complete problem when played with n pegs per row and two colors, by showing how to represent any one-in-three 3SAT problem in it.
motdiem 5y ago
You may be interested in sutom https://sutom.nocle.fr https://sutom.nocle.fr a hybrid wordle/motus for French that recently popped up
Denvercoder9 5y ago
A similar thing happened in the Netherlands. The TV show is called Lingo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(Dutch_game_show) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(Dutch_game_show)), it uses 5-letter words and you get the first letter for free. The guy who more or less beat it wrote a blog post about it: https://vincenttunru.com/hacking-a-gameshow/ https://vincenttunru.com/hacking-a-gameshow/
jerf 5y ago
One of the things that often surprises me is how unprepared people are coming in to game shows. You can win your yearly salary but you walk in off the street with no preparation at all. Obviously, I don't expect everyone to determine and memorize the information-theoretic optimal technique for extracting information from a word game or anything. But for Pete's sake, if you're going to be on the Wheel of Fortune, clock some time with one of the dozen or so computer or console implementations. If you're going to be on the Family Feud, take a moment to explain to funny Uncle Harry that saying the stupid-but-funny answer that popped into his head may cost him and four people who know where he lives a few thousand bucks. If you're going to play the old Concentration game, which was based on rebuses, spend a few hours brushing up on common rebus symbols and patterns. (That's another show that, were it on today, would probably be broken by someone on the Internet. There is probably less than meets the eye when it comes to what can be done on a rebus. Someone could probably analyze the show's run and work out which are the most common syllables they can use, what is phonetically difficult to represent with rebuses, etc.) ISTR that the Wheel of Fortune, for instance, edits out even more mistakes than you'll see on the show, which is plenty, according to one of the "behind the scenes" things. It isn't that hard, anyone can get it in 15 minutes or less, which suggests a lot of contestants come in with not even that much experience. This is for many people the most bang-for-the-monetary-buck they will ever see in their lives. There are other things that will be more important, like having families, but monetarily, this is probably the most money-per-minute they will ever see. Put at least a bit of work into it!
- keville 5y ago
  Wheel of Fortune is just as much about your luck on the wheel as your skill with the phrases, so practice doesn't guarantee victory. WoF's final puzzle awards contestants the "RSTLNE" letters now because nearly _everybody_ came in to the final prepared, knowing the most commonly-occurring English letters.
  - jerf 5y ago
    You are right. I know there's no way to guarantee victory. But there's still a lot of basic errors, if you pay attention carefully to the contestants (rather than the more-fun trying to solve the puzzle before them). My favorite is actually when you get towards the end and they are calling out letters that couldn't possibly make any words with the 2-5 blanks left over, for instance. Saying a vowel after a spin also happens much more often than it should. I don't watch WoF a lot but you can also tell they're playing games with the most common letters after RSTLNE too... simply picking the next three consonants and the next vowel is a great way to lose. And, I mean, yes, very stressful. But you might also be a bit less stressed if you prepared a bit more. Not relaxed, of course, but less stressed.
RaitoBezarius 5y ago
Here's the video : https://youtu.be/9SWG7RT4MrM https://youtu.be/9SWG7RT4MrM :-)

by pil0u 5y ago

desdiv 5y ago

>It was also very funny to watch because they spelled words that most people didn't know they exist. This kinda reminds me of the New Zealand Scrabble player who won multiple French World Scrabble Championships despite not speaking French. He just memorized the French Scrabble dictionary. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Richards_(Scrabble_player) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigel_Richards_(Scrabble_playe...

a_imho 5y ago

In Hungary we have this table top game, iiuc this has the same mechanics just with colors. It was (maybe still is) popular in primary school aged 8-12. https://okosjatek.cdn.shoprenter.hu/custom/okosjatek/image/data/product/Retro%20j%C3%A1t%C3%A9kok/retro_mesterlogika_kek_550_550.jpg?lastmod=1631023233.1639238329 https://okosjatek.cdn.shoprenter.hu/custom/okosjatek/image/d...

jhgb 5y ago
Basically Mastermind. We had Logik instead: https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logik_(hra) https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logik_(hra) But in Mastermind, you for example aren't told which pins are in correct positions, whereas in Wordle you are told that.
croon 5y ago
Yes, it's called Mastermind [0]. Just fewer colors than letters. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game)
- schnitzelstoat 5y ago
  I'd argue it's harder though as colors can form any sequence - they don't have to form legal words.
  - theFco 5y ago
    I'd argue that at the same time it is easier because you do not need to find valid colour sequences (in wordle you can only enter actual words to explore the solution). I wonder if the result is easier or harder overall?
- dekhn 5y ago
  And for the nerds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game)#Worst_case:_Five-guess_algorithm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastermind_(board_game)#Worst_... (Knuth) and In November 2004, Michiel de Bondt proved that solving a Mastermind board is an NP-complete problem when played with n pegs per row and two colors, by showing how to represent any one-in-three 3SAT problem in it.

motdiem 5y ago

You may be interested in sutom https://sutom.nocle.fr https://sutom.nocle.fr a hybrid wordle/motus for French that recently popped up

Denvercoder9 5y ago

A similar thing happened in the Netherlands. The TV show is called Lingo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(Dutch_game_show) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingo_(Dutch_game_show)), it uses 5-letter words and you get the first letter for free. The guy who more or less beat it wrote a blog post about it: https://vincenttunru.com/hacking-a-gameshow/ https://vincenttunru.com/hacking-a-gameshow/

jerf 5y ago

One of the things that often surprises me is how unprepared people are coming in to game shows. You can win your yearly salary but you walk in off the street with no preparation at all. Obviously, I don't expect everyone to determine and memorize the information-theoretic optimal technique for extracting information from a word game or anything. But for Pete's sake, if you're going to be on the Wheel of Fortune, clock some time with one of the dozen or so computer or console implementations. If you're going to be on the Family Feud, take a moment to explain to funny Uncle Harry that saying the stupid-but-funny answer that popped into his head may cost him and four people who know where he lives a few thousand bucks. If you're going to play the old Concentration game, which was based on rebuses, spend a few hours brushing up on common rebus symbols and patterns. (That's another show that, were it on today, would probably be broken by someone on the Internet. There is probably less than meets the eye when it comes to what can be done on a rebus. Someone could probably analyze the show's run and work out which are the most common syllables they can use, what is phonetically difficult to represent with rebuses, etc.) ISTR that the Wheel of Fortune, for instance, edits out even more mistakes than you'll see on the show, which is plenty, according to one of the "behind the scenes" things. It isn't that hard, anyone can get it in 15 minutes or less, which suggests a lot of contestants come in with not even that much experience. This is for many people the most bang-for-the-monetary-buck they will ever see in their lives. There are other things that will be more important, like having families, but monetarily, this is probably the most money-per-minute they will ever see. Put at least a bit of work into it!

keville 5y ago
Wheel of Fortune is just as much about your luck on the wheel as your skill with the phrases, so practice doesn't guarantee victory. WoF's final puzzle awards contestants the "RSTLNE" letters now because nearly _everybody_ came in to the final prepared, knowing the most commonly-occurring English letters.
- jerf 5y ago
  You are right. I know there's no way to guarantee victory. But there's still a lot of basic errors, if you pay attention carefully to the contestants (rather than the more-fun trying to solve the puzzle before them). My favorite is actually when you get towards the end and they are calling out letters that couldn't possibly make any words with the 2-5 blanks left over, for instance. Saying a vowel after a spin also happens much more often than it should. I don't watch WoF a lot but you can also tell they're playing games with the most common letters after RSTLNE too... simply picking the next three consonants and the next vowel is a great way to lose. And, I mean, yes, very stressful. But you might also be a bit less stressed if you prepared a bit more. Not relaxed, of course, but less stressed.

RaitoBezarius 5y ago

Here's the video : https://youtu.be/9SWG7RT4MrM https://youtu.be/9SWG7RT4MrM :-)