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For those of you who are confused, this is about revenge porn. Sometimes unfortunately referred to as "Nonconsensual Intimate Images". While we're at it, it's
by Hizonner 5y ago
For those of you who are confused, this is about revenge porn. Sometimes unfortunately referred to as "Nonconsensual Intimate Images".
While we're at it, it's "child porn", not "CSAM".
These weird jargon names aren't intrinsically less offensive. They don't protect anybody from anything. They certainly don't address any actual problem. They're not necessarily more technically correct, and in fact the word "intimate" in this particular one brings in a ton of baggage that basically guarantees it will be technically wrong much more often than the original, intuitive phrase.
They're just more confusing. They basically exist so that people can feel superior for using them. People who do use them are acting badly and should feel bad.
- zffr 5y agoThere are quite a few organizations that take the opposite stance: * https://www.inhope.org/EN/articles/child-sexual-abuse-material?locale=en https://www.inhope.org/EN/articles/child-sexual-abuse-materi... * https://childrescuecoalition.org/educations/call-it-what-it-is-help-us-change-legislation-from-child-pornography-to-csam/ https://childrescuecoalition.org/educations/call-it-what-it-... * https://www.thorn.org/blog/decoding-the-language-of-child-sexual-exploitation-acronyms-to-know/ https://www.thorn.org/blog/decoding-the-language-of-child-se... * https://www.adfsolutions.com/news/what-is-csam https://www.adfsolutions.com/news/what-is-csam
- Natsu 5y agoI get what they're gesturing at, but I find a stronger emotional reaction against child porn than CSAM and it never once occurred to me that anyone thought this term implied it was in any way consensual or non-horrific.
- acdha 5y agoIt’s certainly a more familiar term for many of us, but I prefer the new terms because “porn” has pleasurable connotations for most people. Using that term focuses on the abusers’ pleasure rather than the victims’ suffering. I think this is especially important at older ages: if you remember things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_celebrity_nude_photo_leak there were entirely too many men who felt comfortable making public statements about how great it was (I remember seeing some open source developers tweeting about this like it was a gift to the world). That won’t happen for young children but it definitely does for teenagers, so I’m fine with changing the language to focus on the horrific experience.
- kkjjkgjjgg 5y agoExcept if everybody just uses CSAM instead of "Child Sexual Abuse Material", as they are wont to do because the full words are too cumbersome, you lose all negative connotations whatsoever. I find the discussion completely ridiculous. I don't think anybody who isn't a pedophile ever thought child porn could have any positive connotations.
- pseudalopex 5y agoPleasure is what most child pornography laws focus on too as far as I know. Drawings are illegal in some places for example.
- acdha 5y agoI’m just talking about the term, not globally surveying laws. It seems reasonable to avoid a term to describe abuse which is also used for media which a large fraction of adults have enjoyed.
- pseudalopex 5y agoThe links above included groups pushing to change the legal name but not the definition. A large fraction of adults have taken drugs prescribed a doctor. Do we need a 4 word neologism for illegal drugs?
- maroonblazer 5y agoThe word "pornography" puts the focus on the person consuming it, as opposed to "nonconsensual" or "abuse" which puts the focus, rightly in my eyes, on the people who did not consent to having their images either taken or made public. Not confusing at all.
- Hizonner 5y agoNo, a bunch of people needed a pretext to come up with some jargon so that they could feel special, so, among other things, they decided to adopt the unsupported and frankly ridiculous ideas that (a) the word "pornography" put the focus on the consumer in any certain way, (b) any such "focusing" was strong enough to be important or noticeable, and (c) anybody who wasn't desperately searching for something to complain about would ever care. Another excuse they used was that the existing terms were somehow imprecise... and that they'd be able to come up with new terms that were (1) not equally imprecise and (2) somehow likely to defy the universal drift present in all human language, so that they would not end up with completely new connotations 5 minutes after first being used publicly, and completely new denotations shortly after that. So they tried to rename things that had good enough names. Names that were searchable. Names that were meaningful both to people new to the issues and to people familiar with the issues. Not because it mattered, but because it made them feel important.
- noah_buddy 5y agoAgree to disagree, to me this seems like the euphemism treadmill paired with academic/professional lingo seeping into the public. Still, I'm not going to presume that someone knows more or has a more valid opinion on something because they use a fancy new acronym. And I severely doubt that anyone's mind will be swayed by an acronym either. Fortunately on both of these issues, I doubt many people need to be convinced.
- maroonblazer 5y ago> to me this seems like the euphemism treadmill paired with academic/professional lingo seeping into the public. I agree the euphemism treadmill is a thing, but based on events here in the U.S. over the last several years I think we could use much more "academic/professional lingo seeping into the public" if by 'lingo' we mean impartial, reasoned takes on things.
- dudus 5y agoThese terms change a lot and it's very confusing indeed. PTSD has been called: Bullet wind, soldier's heart, battle fatigue, operational exhaustion, combat neurosis, Combat stress reaction (CSR), combat fatigue, and battle neurosis
- fibonachos 5y agoGeorge Carlin’s bit on euphemisms, which covers the evolution of PTSD, immediately sprung to mind when I read the headline.
- pseudalopex 5y agoCarlin's bit about euphemisms ignored people got PTSD outside combat too.
- xboxnolifes 5y ago(Note, my original comment has been edited and the entire contents have been changed) Revenge porn implies, well, revenge. This covers non-revenge related sharing. That being said, I would be incredibly appreciative if we could keep these defined terms less than 10 syllables. Not sure how they expect people to adopt the term when the alternative, "revenge porn", is so easy to say. My only gripe with the term CSAM is that it looks like an acronym for a missile system at first glance.
- toomanybeersies 5y agoThere's also cold spray additive manufacturing, a 3d printing technique that involves spraying high velocity metal powder to build layers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_spray_additive_manufacturing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_spray_additive_manufactur...
- nonameiguess 5y agoPorn is created with the intention of titillating. This is probably the case for the child stuff, but "revenge porn" is intended for revenge. It's not disseminated for the purpose of arousing consumers, but of embarrassing the subject.
- khazhoux 5y agoNCII is an awkward term, but improves on "revenge porn": * A nude isn't automatically "porn." In fact, nudes shared with one's BF/GF/spouse/etc aren't really porn at all. * Not all images like this are for revenge. Some people just share photos because they're assholes.
- serverholic 5y agoSometimes I think we go too far in an effort to be accurate and end up sacrificing impact.
- Hizonner 5y agoA nude isn't automatically "intimate" either. Nor is nudity the only aspect that might make an image "intimate", or even the most important one. Nor does "intimacy" capture anything remotely like all of the reasons the material might be painful or embarassing for somebody. In fact, if I were looking for something vaguely silly to be offended by, I'd suggest that it was a bad idea to tell the subjects of those images what they should consider to be intimate or why they should feel offended by the images being shared... as the use of "intimate" tends to do. Oh, and "images" unreasonably limits the scope of the media that might be problems. Not all of the images are shared nonconsensually, either, at least not initially. And there are all kinds of forms and layers of consent. So, if you want to be all technically correct, you probably shouldn't bring that in either. In other words, like all terminology, "NCII" is imprecise. In fact, I think it's a true step down from "revenge porn", even if you ignore the fact that you shouldn't change terminology for trivial reasons to begin with. It is NOT an improvement. It's people arguing over minutiae so they can feel informed, feel like they're helping, and get a rush out of "correcting" everybody else.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- tomrod 5y agoLanguages evolve to classify and add clarity to cover edge cases. Difficultas linguarum est ut evolvantur ad melius serviendum hominibus qui eas in condicione versantes loquuntur.
- Hizonner 5y agoPrescriptivism rarely if ever creates useful linguistic evolution. The concepts have to change before you can stick new labels on them, or at least at the same time. And in this case what's being prescribed does not in fact tighten up any boundaries or "carve reality at the joints" any better than what it's trying to replace.
- tomrod 5y agoI once installed an operating system from a CD-ROM which I later learned through an Internet forum that I could have downloaded from a mirror FTP site and loaded as an .iso into the flash memory of a USB drive for LiveUSB testing of the Linux distro, a new flavor of Ubuntu. Out of the 52 words in this last sentence, 22 of them were new or adaptations, commonly through prescriptivism, and a common enough list of words that one can find each of them commonly used on the forum you're reading. I conclude that your assertion that "prescriptivism rarely creates useful linguistic evolution" is wrong. While I doubt Facebook will shut down to honor the "not sharing intimate non-consensual photos" policy (as it should... as it shares data including photos without informed consent [EULA doesn't count in my personal view]), they aren't wrong to call out the common terminology doesn't work for setting a policy as it is too vague. Have a good day.
- easrng 5y agoAnd CSAM is not really named appropriately named. For example, I am under 18 and have nudes of myself on my phone but there was nobody else involved and no abuse but it would still be lumped together as CSAM.
- IAmEveryone 5y ago
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- jameshart 5y agoThere are some very good reasons for adopting technical terms for concepts like this. I would imagine it's generally easier for academics to book venues for conferences when the title is 'CSAM Seminar' than if it's called a 'Child Pornography Convention' Similarly, when they are looking up publications, it's probably more fruitful, and less prone to terms-of-academic-use-violations for them to google 'NCII' than 'revenge porn'. It's a little like how people tend to refer to themselves as 'working in pharmaceutical sales' rather than 'dealing in drugs'.