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You can't take him for granted like that. Yeah he donated a lot and yeah he has more and yeah he left $1B on the table after leaving Facebook, but he just can'

You can't take him for granted like that. Yeah he donated a lot and yeah he has more and yeah he left $1B on the table after leaving Facebook, but he just can't do it all alone. If you're rich you get all kinds of people in your life soliciting your money, you gotta watch it like a hawk, it's easy to lose a billion dollars.

cpach 5y ago
Good point. And he might also want to donate to other charities. There are many worthy causes besides Signal. And it’s probably sound for Signal to not rely on one single wealthy donor.
- dheera 5y ago
  > There are many worthy causes besides Signal To be fair, that applies to non-billionaires as well.
  - cpach 5y ago
    Indeed!
rantanplan 5y ago
> it's easy to lose a billion dollars :O
- novok 5y ago
  20 $50 million donations to various groups and $1 billion dollars is gone. You could probably do that in 5 years and still not come out as effective.
  - na85 5y ago
    Sure but even a meagre 8% return on $950M is $76M. Buying and holding SP500 index funds in 2021 would have returned more than triple that, at 26% or so. You can give away 50 mil a year and still get tens of millions dollars richer if you're sitting on $1B. It's only "easy" to lose $1B if you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.
    - sangnoir 5y ago
      Since when is an 8% return "meagre"?! I get it, the last year had a crazy stock price increase, but it was an outlier.
      - na85 5y ago
        The average SP500 return for the last 50 years is north of 10%, so I consider 8 to be meagre.
    - whiddershins 5y ago
      4%. 4% is the number. Don’t count on anything over this.
      - mwint 5y ago
        Is that 4% inflation-adjusted?
        largbae 5y ago
        Usually yes. In times of inflating asset prices, the value of the investment tends to inflate with it.
        whiddershins 5y ago
        Usually yes. But … not every year exactly, so it works best when viewed over a longer term.
      - jnwatson 5y ago
        The next 10 years? 0%. We’ll be lucky if the market is flat in the next decade.
        na85 5y ago
        10 year treasury bonds are essentially risk free, as they are guaranteed by the US Treasury. Current 10-year yields are a bit less than 2%, so that's essentially your minimum return there.
  - totony 5y ago
    The average american makes ~2m in a lifetime, 1b$ is 500x that. "Losing" 1b$ is ludicrous unless you are actively looking to lose it (or don't care about it, like musk & al). How do you lose what 500 people make in their lifetime?
    - mdonahoe 5y ago
      Look at what happens to lottery winners.
      - scott_w 5y ago
        There’s a world of difference between a million and a billion. Just physically moving that amount of cash is difficult and takes time. Even those lottery winners don’t blow the whole lot in less than a year.
        adwn 5y ago
        > Just physically moving that amount of cash is difficult and takes time. ...that's why it isn't moved physically?
    - Closi 5y ago
      Yeah, but the average American also isn’t making $50 million donations to keep a pet project going.
      - totony 5y ago
        Let's say your net worth is ~100k. That's equivalent to a 2.5k donation. Investing 2.5k in a pet project is pretty common, and you don't find yourself in the streets for doing so. I think people that say it's easy to lose 2b$ don't have a clear understanding of the amount of money that is. It's a crazy amount for one person.
        1123581321 5y ago
        I think you’ve lost the context. If signal does not figure out revenue, they will require more $50MM donations. Using your analogy, that would be like you spending $5,000 or $10,000 when you originally only planned to spend $2,500. Perhaps you wouldn’t flinch, but many would pull the plug after the first or second time, especially if disappointed about some aspect of the project. Your project is at risk by relying on your continued good graces, even though you may technically be able to afford more investment. Likewise, signal is at risk if it requires periodic investment of millions from Acton, even though he can afford it and currently supports the project. Since he donated a few percent of his net worth, it’s a better situation than if he had donated, say, half, but signal still needs to take the risk seriously.
  - rantanplan 5y ago
    Or, you know, a one $1 billion dollars donation and it's gone as well :D
louthy 5y ago
> it's easy to lose a billion dollars With doors that go like this or this and not like this
sillysaurusx 5y ago
> it's easy to lose a billion dollars. Can you cite some examples? If it were easy, presumably a lot of people have done it.
- grahamlee 5y ago
  > Can you cite some examples? Alongside the other examples in this thread, Donald Trump lost at least $1b during the first two years of his term. > If it were easy, presumably a lot of people have done it. The easiest way to lose a billion is to start with more than a billion, and there aren't really a lot of people in that position.
- kovac 5y ago
  Mike Tyson, Evander Holy field, I'd imagine there'd be a lot of boxers.
- toyg 5y ago
  Many super-paid athletes famously end up broke very quickly after their careers end. Some NBA names here [0] but it's not specific to basketball - it typically correlates with coming from poverty and/or lack of financial education. [0] https://www.thesportster.com/basketball/15-nba-players-who-went-broke-after-retiring-where-are-they-now/ https://www.thesportster.com/basketball/15-nba-players-who-w...
  - largbae 5y ago
    I wonder why they don't maintain any IP rights on their performances like actors or singers.
- karaterobot 5y ago
  Vijay Mallya, Patricia Kluge, and Eike Batista are all entrepreneurs who lost a billion or more and are now worth nothing. Masayoshi Son lost $60 billion and only made back about $20 billion. Technically Bezos, Buffett, and Bill Gates have all lost billions many times, just due to market fluctuations, but that probably doesn't count. Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, spends $1B like nothing: $500 million yacht, $300 million dollar house (one of many), $450 million on a painting. I'm certain that many members of that family have spent $1B or more. You know what they say: a million here, a million there, pretty soon it adds up to real money.
tharne 5y ago
> If you're rich you get all kinds of people in your life soliciting your money, you gotta watch it like a hawk, it's easy to lose a billion dollars. People forget this far too often. No matter how much money a person or an organization has, it can disappear in the blink of an eye if you view it as an unlimited money pot that you can keep going back to.

cpach 5y ago

Good point. And he might also want to donate to other charities. There are many worthy causes besides Signal. And it’s probably sound for Signal to not rely on one single wealthy donor.

dheera 5y ago
> There are many worthy causes besides Signal To be fair, that applies to non-billionaires as well.
- cpach 5y ago
  Indeed!

rantanplan 5y ago

> it's easy to lose a billion dollars :O

novok 5y ago
20 $50 million donations to various groups and $1 billion dollars is gone. You could probably do that in 5 years and still not come out as effective.
- na85 5y ago
  Sure but even a meagre 8% return on $950M is $76M. Buying and holding SP500 index funds in 2021 would have returned more than triple that, at 26% or so. You can give away 50 mil a year and still get tens of millions dollars richer if you're sitting on $1B. It's only "easy" to lose $1B if you have absolutely no idea what you're doing.
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    Since when is an 8% return "meagre"?! I get it, the last year had a crazy stock price increase, but it was an outlier.
    - na85 5y ago
      The average SP500 return for the last 50 years is north of 10%, so I consider 8 to be meagre.
  - whiddershins 5y ago
    4%. 4% is the number. Don’t count on anything over this.
    - mwint 5y ago
      Is that 4% inflation-adjusted?
      - largbae 5y ago
        Usually yes. In times of inflating asset prices, the value of the investment tends to inflate with it.
      - whiddershins 5y ago
        Usually yes. But … not every year exactly, so it works best when viewed over a longer term.
    - jnwatson 5y ago
      The next 10 years? 0%. We’ll be lucky if the market is flat in the next decade.
      - na85 5y ago
        10 year treasury bonds are essentially risk free, as they are guaranteed by the US Treasury. Current 10-year yields are a bit less than 2%, so that's essentially your minimum return there.
- totony 5y ago
  The average american makes ~2m in a lifetime, 1b$ is 500x that. "Losing" 1b$ is ludicrous unless you are actively looking to lose it (or don't care about it, like musk & al). How do you lose what 500 people make in their lifetime?
  - mdonahoe 5y ago
    Look at what happens to lottery winners.
    - scott_w 5y ago
      There’s a world of difference between a million and a billion. Just physically moving that amount of cash is difficult and takes time. Even those lottery winners don’t blow the whole lot in less than a year.
      - adwn 5y ago
        > Just physically moving that amount of cash is difficult and takes time. ...that's why it isn't moved physically?
  - Closi 5y ago
    Yeah, but the average American also isn’t making $50 million donations to keep a pet project going.
    - totony 5y ago
      Let's say your net worth is ~100k. That's equivalent to a 2.5k donation. Investing 2.5k in a pet project is pretty common, and you don't find yourself in the streets for doing so. I think people that say it's easy to lose 2b$ don't have a clear understanding of the amount of money that is. It's a crazy amount for one person.
      - 1123581321 5y ago
        I think you’ve lost the context. If signal does not figure out revenue, they will require more $50MM donations. Using your analogy, that would be like you spending $5,000 or $10,000 when you originally only planned to spend $2,500. Perhaps you wouldn’t flinch, but many would pull the plug after the first or second time, especially if disappointed about some aspect of the project. Your project is at risk by relying on your continued good graces, even though you may technically be able to afford more investment. Likewise, signal is at risk if it requires periodic investment of millions from Acton, even though he can afford it and currently supports the project. Since he donated a few percent of his net worth, it’s a better situation than if he had donated, say, half, but signal still needs to take the risk seriously.
- rantanplan 5y ago
  Or, you know, a one $1 billion dollars donation and it's gone as well :D

louthy 5y ago

> it's easy to lose a billion dollars With doors that go like this or this and not like this

sillysaurusx 5y ago

> it's easy to lose a billion dollars. Can you cite some examples? If it were easy, presumably a lot of people have done it.

grahamlee 5y ago
> Can you cite some examples? Alongside the other examples in this thread, Donald Trump lost at least $1b during the first two years of his term. > If it were easy, presumably a lot of people have done it. The easiest way to lose a billion is to start with more than a billion, and there aren't really a lot of people in that position.
kovac 5y ago
Mike Tyson, Evander Holy field, I'd imagine there'd be a lot of boxers.
toyg 5y ago
Many super-paid athletes famously end up broke very quickly after their careers end. Some NBA names here [0] but it's not specific to basketball - it typically correlates with coming from poverty and/or lack of financial education. [0] https://www.thesportster.com/basketball/15-nba-players-who-went-broke-after-retiring-where-are-they-now/ https://www.thesportster.com/basketball/15-nba-players-who-w...
- largbae 5y ago
  I wonder why they don't maintain any IP rights on their performances like actors or singers.
karaterobot 5y ago
Vijay Mallya, Patricia Kluge, and Eike Batista are all entrepreneurs who lost a billion or more and are now worth nothing. Masayoshi Son lost $60 billion and only made back about $20 billion. Technically Bezos, Buffett, and Bill Gates have all lost billions many times, just due to market fluctuations, but that probably doesn't count. Mohammed bin Salman, the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia, spends $1B like nothing: $500 million yacht, $300 million dollar house (one of many), $450 million on a painting. I'm certain that many members of that family have spent $1B or more. You know what they say: a million here, a million there, pretty soon it adds up to real money.

tharne 5y ago

> If you're rich you get all kinds of people in your life soliciting your money, you gotta watch it like a hawk, it's easy to lose a billion dollars. People forget this far too often. No matter how much money a person or an organization has, it can disappear in the blink of an eye if you view it as an unlimited money pot that you can keep going back to.