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Ahh, finally governments are realizing how unsustainable bitcoin is. I don't understand why it takes so much time for Government that BTC, animal farming, clim

Ahh, finally governments are realizing how unsustainable bitcoin is. I don't understand why it takes so much time for Government that BTC, animal farming, climate change shouldn't be taken lightly. I feel sad for those tax payers whose money were used to subsidize electricity. And it’s so astonishing to me why crytobois don't switch to the better currency that doesn't use POW at least they won’t use exorbitant power.

poontang1 5y ago
Because non PoW algorithms are inferior, and bitcoin can be entirely powered from stranded energy that would not otherwise be used
- paulgb 5y ago
  I always find it weird that people defend Bitcoin with hypotheticals like this. Sure, it could be, but it isn't, and it largely seems to be going in the other direction. A lot of these arguments assume that price of energy is the only input, but the availability of mining hardware is also a constraint, and once you have it, you have a strong incentive to run it 24/7. There are a few “climate-friendly” miners making a bit of noise, but the players that dominate by hashrate are using coal and natural gas. For example, here's a thread from the other day about one of the largest US miners and the difficulties they encountered bringing an old coal plant back up to capacity: https://mobile.twitter.com/anthonyc3004/status/1479506660200701957 https://mobile.twitter.com/anthonyc3004/status/1479506660200...
Terry_Roll 5y ago
Bitcoins always had its flaw from the start but I wonder if this is just the concerted effort to shift people over to Central Bank Digital Currency having used the existing crypto tokens as a Proof in Concept whilst raising awareness of a new type of mon(k)ey token. China already have their own Digital Currency (DC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi and on the 18th the UK unveils this, which people can watch online for free. https://www.rusi.org/events/open-to-all/central-bank-digital-currencies-plotting-path-ahead-uk https://www.rusi.org/events/open-to-all/central-bank-digital... One thing I noted with the Chinese DC, is that the DC can starting expiring in order to stimulate spending in the wider economy, much like the ECB's negative interest rates. Reports suggest the big global corps like Siemens and Phillips are paying to store money in EU banks instead of investing it, but this could also be the mopping up of quantitative easing money being End-of-Lifed. Nothing is ever transparent in global finance and politics.
pcthrowaway 5y ago
Vegan, environmentalist, "cryptoboi" here (no, I don't do crossfit unfortunately). I don't hold any BTC, I constantly tell people it's not worth the cost. Even though it feels like yelling at a brick wall much of the time, there are a lot of people involved in crypto who feel the same way, and exclusively use blockchains that are proof of stake (an entire proof of stake network might consume roughly as much energy as an average U.S. household) So yes, many people in crypto have switched, and I'm in favour of an outright global ban on PoW mining (though El Salvador might be hard to get on board). Bitcoin is still number 1 by market cap but I suspect Ethereum will flip it soon, perhaps this year as they move to proof of stake, and (hopefully) more countries ban mining.
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
  Its not too late to sell your shitcoins and buy Bitcoin. Everything else is going to zero!
  - pcthrowaway 5y ago
    See, I don't even know if this is a satirical response or not, but if serious, this is exactly the type of comment I'm talking about. Let's ignore the fact that the world is burning, and pile onto an energy-thirsty blockchain that accounts for (perhaps now a little under) 0.5% of global energy consumption, because hey, if we're lucky, maybe that'll become 1% of energy consumption. There are so many problems with this. And yet, bitcoin maxis will continue to handwave and gaslight with arguments of the energy coming from 'green' sources (as if that energy couldn't be used for more productive things).
- timeon 5y ago
  > perhaps this year as they move to proof of stake But will they move?
rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
Bitcoiners don't believe that anything other than PoW provides the security model appropriate for global decentralized money. Try to understand why energy is being spent -- the naive interpretation is that this is waste, and there are better options. There are no better options that provide the security required for Bitcoin. The energy is not wasted, it is being used to provide security.

poontang1 5y ago

Because non PoW algorithms are inferior, and bitcoin can be entirely powered from stranded energy that would not otherwise be used

paulgb 5y ago
I always find it weird that people defend Bitcoin with hypotheticals like this. Sure, it could be, but it isn't, and it largely seems to be going in the other direction. A lot of these arguments assume that price of energy is the only input, but the availability of mining hardware is also a constraint, and once you have it, you have a strong incentive to run it 24/7. There are a few “climate-friendly” miners making a bit of noise, but the players that dominate by hashrate are using coal and natural gas. For example, here's a thread from the other day about one of the largest US miners and the difficulties they encountered bringing an old coal plant back up to capacity: https://mobile.twitter.com/anthonyc3004/status/1479506660200701957 https://mobile.twitter.com/anthonyc3004/status/1479506660200...

Terry_Roll 5y ago

Bitcoins always had its flaw from the start but I wonder if this is just the concerted effort to shift people over to Central Bank Digital Currency having used the existing crypto tokens as a Proof in Concept whilst raising awareness of a new type of mon(k)ey token. China already have their own Digital Currency (DC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_renminbi and on the 18th the UK unveils this, which people can watch online for free. https://www.rusi.org/events/open-to-all/central-bank-digital-currencies-plotting-path-ahead-uk https://www.rusi.org/events/open-to-all/central-bank-digital... One thing I noted with the Chinese DC, is that the DC can starting expiring in order to stimulate spending in the wider economy, much like the ECB's negative interest rates. Reports suggest the big global corps like Siemens and Phillips are paying to store money in EU banks instead of investing it, but this could also be the mopping up of quantitative easing money being End-of-Lifed. Nothing is ever transparent in global finance and politics.

pcthrowaway 5y ago

Vegan, environmentalist, "cryptoboi" here (no, I don't do crossfit unfortunately). I don't hold any BTC, I constantly tell people it's not worth the cost. Even though it feels like yelling at a brick wall much of the time, there are a lot of people involved in crypto who feel the same way, and exclusively use blockchains that are proof of stake (an entire proof of stake network might consume roughly as much energy as an average U.S. household) So yes, many people in crypto have switched, and I'm in favour of an outright global ban on PoW mining (though El Salvador might be hard to get on board). Bitcoin is still number 1 by market cap but I suspect Ethereum will flip it soon, perhaps this year as they move to proof of stake, and (hopefully) more countries ban mining.

rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
Its not too late to sell your shitcoins and buy Bitcoin. Everything else is going to zero!
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  See, I don't even know if this is a satirical response or not, but if serious, this is exactly the type of comment I'm talking about. Let's ignore the fact that the world is burning, and pile onto an energy-thirsty blockchain that accounts for (perhaps now a little under) 0.5% of global energy consumption, because hey, if we're lucky, maybe that'll become 1% of energy consumption. There are so many problems with this. And yet, bitcoin maxis will continue to handwave and gaslight with arguments of the energy coming from 'green' sources (as if that energy couldn't be used for more productive things).
timeon 5y ago
> perhaps this year as they move to proof of stake But will they move?

rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago

Bitcoiners don't believe that anything other than PoW provides the security model appropriate for global decentralized money. Try to understand why energy is being spent -- the naive interpretation is that this is waste, and there are better options. There are no better options that provide the security required for Bitcoin. The energy is not wasted, it is being used to provide security.