7 ms·

There are upgradeable options though. The framework Laptop to name the most hyped current option for example.

by y4mi 5y ago

fho 5y ago
The problem with these projects is that they are all the hype for a while and after the hype dies down you are left with laptop that is only in theory upgradable.
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  You make it sound like it's a kickstarter.
  - notRobot 5y ago
    I love frame.work as a concept, but it's definitely not a "proven" concept at the moment. The company could very well go under or choose not to support upgrading the laptop.
    - cehrlich 5y ago
      Even assuming Framework shuts down tomorrow and destroys their existing stock of replacement parts and the specs for making new ones, I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery (there are knockoff batteries for much more obscure laptops). I would assume that keyboards, trackpads, etc. will also be available as some laptops bite the dust and are scavenged for parts. Whether the motherboard/CPU will actually be upgradeable obviously remains to be seen. The 11th Gen CPUs get a lot of flak, but they have good single-core performance which will make them suitable for general use for a long time. It's at least equally upgradeable as the first ThinkPads with soldered on CPUs, which by today's standards is still pretty good - and if framework deliver on their promises, then it will be even better. But either way the baseline isn't bad.
      - ihateolives 5y ago
        > I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery I mean, you can buy a new-ish Thinkpad where you can replace/upgrade all of those things. You get great compatibility and most hw/sw compatibility bugs are already known and have workarounds. Framework has to have some other value propositions as well besides being able to replace things you mentioned.
        cehrlich 5y ago
        As I said, that's the absolute worst-case scenario. I don't own one personally, but reviews have been overwhelmingly positive so presumably it does have something to offer beyond replaceability. (disclaimer: some people on HN seem to have had some driver issues on Linux on theirs)
      - goodpoint 5y ago
        > you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display Quite the opposite. That would only apply to a very popular laptop like some thinkpads.
        Dylan16807 5y ago
        It uses off the shelf RAM and SSDs. For replacement displays I'm not sure but they seem to be pretty widey available for mildly popular devices.
        cehrlich 5y ago
        The Framework Laptop uses the same panel as the Acer Swift 3 and several other quite popular laptops, so should be good in that regard.
  - Ensorceled 5y ago
    It may not be a kickstarter but it is definitely a startup in a tough space, being skeptical of its long term success is pretty reasonable.
    - j45 5y ago
      Try one out before you start with that conclusion
      - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
        That's the thing, their USP is long-term maintainability and upgradeability, but if they call it quits in a year, you're stuck with a niche product that nobody else is willing to make parts for.
        easton 5y ago
        To be fair, once you hit 5 years (or if you’re unlucky 3 years) it becomes just about impossible to get OEM parts from Dell or Lenovo and you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise. So either way you could end up in the same boat, except if framework comes up with a gen 2 it’s possible with enough consumer pressure they’ll make the parts cross compatible.
        j45 5y ago
        A bit part of the Frameworks USP isn’t understandable by many laptop users who haven’t repaired or upgraded their own laptops in the past. They will just buy, while a repairable laptop could create beginners who can learn to maintain well designed equipment. It might not give the iPhone 23 feels.
        my_usernam3 5y ago
        > you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise Except these graveyards are ENDLESS because of the amount they produced and companies threw away. My favorite is all the originally $150 docking stations that you can pick up for under $20 (or at least when I was in the lenovo t series game).
- JKCalhoun 5y ago
  Why not instead someone just market a replacement keyboard for one of the more popular laptops? It sounds as though modern keyboards are the primary pain point for newer laptops. (Or if a 3rd party had marketed an inexpensive replacement power-brick for the author's 2001 Apple iBook perhaps he would still be using it.)
  - goodpoint 5y ago
    Patents, followed by a small battalion of lawyers.
brightball 5y ago
I’m watching them closely for my next machine in a year or 2.
black_puppydog 5y ago
I love the idea of framework! But I also live in France and I can't get myself to do another preorder adventure right now. When they start actually shipping I might go for that, although frankly I still might wait for a Ryzen model.

There are upgradeable options though. The framework Laptop to name the most hyped current option for example.

by y4mi 5y ago

There are upgradeable options though. The framework Laptop to name the most hyped current option for example.

fho 5y ago

The problem with these projects is that they are all the hype for a while and after the hype dies down you are left with laptop that is only in theory upgradable.

Dylan16807 5y ago
You make it sound like it's a kickstarter.
- notRobot 5y ago
  I love frame.work as a concept, but it's definitely not a "proven" concept at the moment. The company could very well go under or choose not to support upgrading the laptop.
  - cehrlich 5y ago
    Even assuming Framework shuts down tomorrow and destroys their existing stock of replacement parts and the specs for making new ones, I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery (there are knockoff batteries for much more obscure laptops). I would assume that keyboards, trackpads, etc. will also be available as some laptops bite the dust and are scavenged for parts. Whether the motherboard/CPU will actually be upgradeable obviously remains to be seen. The 11th Gen CPUs get a lot of flak, but they have good single-core performance which will make them suitable for general use for a long time. It's at least equally upgradeable as the first ThinkPads with soldered on CPUs, which by today's standards is still pretty good - and if framework deliver on their promises, then it will be even better. But either way the baseline isn't bad.
    - ihateolives 5y ago
      > I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery I mean, you can buy a new-ish Thinkpad where you can replace/upgrade all of those things. You get great compatibility and most hw/sw compatibility bugs are already known and have workarounds. Framework has to have some other value propositions as well besides being able to replace things you mentioned.
      - cehrlich 5y ago
        As I said, that's the absolute worst-case scenario. I don't own one personally, but reviews have been overwhelmingly positive so presumably it does have something to offer beyond replaceability. (disclaimer: some people on HN seem to have had some driver issues on Linux on theirs)
    - goodpoint 5y ago
      > you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display Quite the opposite. That would only apply to a very popular laptop like some thinkpads.
      - Dylan16807 5y ago
        It uses off the shelf RAM and SSDs. For replacement displays I'm not sure but they seem to be pretty widey available for mildly popular devices.
        cehrlich 5y ago
        The Framework Laptop uses the same panel as the Acer Swift 3 and several other quite popular laptops, so should be good in that regard.
- Ensorceled 5y ago
  It may not be a kickstarter but it is definitely a startup in a tough space, being skeptical of its long term success is pretty reasonable.
  - j45 5y ago
    Try one out before you start with that conclusion
    - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
      That's the thing, their USP is long-term maintainability and upgradeability, but if they call it quits in a year, you're stuck with a niche product that nobody else is willing to make parts for.
      - easton 5y ago
        To be fair, once you hit 5 years (or if you’re unlucky 3 years) it becomes just about impossible to get OEM parts from Dell or Lenovo and you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise. So either way you could end up in the same boat, except if framework comes up with a gen 2 it’s possible with enough consumer pressure they’ll make the parts cross compatible.
        j45 5y ago
        A bit part of the Frameworks USP isn’t understandable by many laptop users who haven’t repaired or upgraded their own laptops in the past. They will just buy, while a repairable laptop could create beginners who can learn to maintain well designed equipment. It might not give the iPhone 23 feels.
        my_usernam3 5y ago
        > you have to resort to cannibalizing broken ones off eBay or your parts bin if you’re in enterprise Except these graveyards are ENDLESS because of the amount they produced and companies threw away. My favorite is all the originally $150 docking stations that you can pick up for under $20 (or at least when I was in the lenovo t series game).
JKCalhoun 5y ago
Why not instead someone just market a replacement keyboard for one of the more popular laptops? It sounds as though modern keyboards are the primary pain point for newer laptops. (Or if a 3rd party had marketed an inexpensive replacement power-brick for the author's 2001 Apple iBook perhaps he would still be using it.)
- goodpoint 5y ago
  Patents, followed by a small battalion of lawyers.

brightball 5y ago

I’m watching them closely for my next machine in a year or 2.

black_puppydog 5y ago

I love the idea of framework! But I also live in France and I can't get myself to do another preorder adventure right now. When they start actually shipping I might go for that, although frankly I still might wait for a Ryzen model.