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The contract of sale is between you and the buyer. The contract for work is between UpWork and the contractor. Find the difference. eBay doesn't take a 30% cut

The contract of sale is between you and the buyer. The contract for work is between UpWork and the contractor. Find the difference. eBay doesn't take a 30% cut for that reason.

ajross 5y ago
Upwork isn't in violation of their contract. They paid the OP. The question is if they should be required to continue working with the OP under new contracts. And obviously nothing forces them to do so.
- MereInterest 5y ago
  Upwork is asking for return of payment from the OP. From the article's title: "Upwork is asking me for a $12,500 refund". From later in the article, this is not an isolated incident: "A day after, a few other freelancers whom we were working with, started contacting me saying that Upwork is asking all of them for a refund as well." This is not the same as Upwork refusing to continue working with the freelancer. This is Upwork attempting to modify the terms for previous work done by the freelancer.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    They’re only modifying the terms for future work done. Namely, the freelancer won’t get any money for it. They’re not requesting them to pay back $12500 right now.
    - MereInterest 5y ago
      I'm not a contact lawyer, but that sounds like it would be an invalid contract for lack of consideration. In the terms for future work being done, Upwork is requiring the freelancer to do more than a month of work without Upwork providing any consideration in return. No payment for work done, no promise not to extract the same unpaid labor again.
    - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
      This is one of the most disingenious and bent takes i have seen in my life. its like arguing that homeopathy shitheads that 'helps with cancer' are not scammers because of placebo effect
throwaway14356 5y ago
the credit card is also a party. a significant one in that they do the chargeback. this is why credit cards are not that popular in europe.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  The only time I've been to Europe was an airport layover, so hopefully you can answer my dumb question: what sort of payment cards are popular in Europe? We periodically see threads on HN in which people who claim to be Europeans chastise Americans for our use of cash and/or checks. I had assumed that was because you thought credit cards were great. That may be wrong, but now I don't want to just assume you think debit cards are great. Maybe there is another sort of payment card?
  - Macha 5y ago
    Debit cards are certainly the majority in my country. Banks offer subaccounts for people who reasonably don't want to connect their life savings to their payment card, or new vendors like revolut are popular for similar reasons.
    - freemint 5y ago
      Bunq is another alternative. I use both revolte and bunq
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    As others have replied, debit cards. Credit cards, too; I've had at least one or two for over a decade. And have, uh, at least four; more probably five or six, at the moment. Only ever used... Three or four, in total, and I think only ever two in the same year. One form of actual piece-of-plastic physical card that's popular here in Finland is the combination debit-credit card. When I insert it into the checkout payment terminal it first gives me a selection of "Debit / Credit?", then I tap in my PIN, and then it either charges my bank account or my credit card, depending on which I selected in the first step. These same cards work in ATMs, and abroad too. I lifted cash in Turkey ten years ago, I think from Visa (IIRC my bank switched to MasterCard after that). In Sweden, supermarket payment terminals have one or two steps more: you need to confirm the amount, and if you want you can tap in an additional amount and have the cashier hand you cash in stead of going to an ATM. (Can't recall the order for sure; I think confirming the amount came first, before even selecting credit/debit, and the additional withdrawal last.) Never seen the amount confirmation in Finland; I suppose here it's taken for granted that it'll be the same as what the cashier just told you (and what you can see on the customer-facing display of their register, usually right next to the payment terminal). The additional cash withdrawal does exist (or at least did, can't recall when I last saw it) in some shops, but it's rare.

The contract of sale is between you and the buyer. The contract for work is between UpWork and the contractor. Find the difference. eBay doesn't take a 30% cut for that reason.

ajross 5y ago

Upwork isn't in violation of their contract. They paid the OP. The question is if they should be required to continue working with the OP under new contracts. And obviously nothing forces them to do so.

MereInterest 5y ago
Upwork is asking for return of payment from the OP. From the article's title: "Upwork is asking me for a $12,500 refund". From later in the article, this is not an isolated incident: "A day after, a few other freelancers whom we were working with, started contacting me saying that Upwork is asking all of them for a refund as well." This is not the same as Upwork refusing to continue working with the freelancer. This is Upwork attempting to modify the terms for previous work done by the freelancer.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  They’re only modifying the terms for future work done. Namely, the freelancer won’t get any money for it. They’re not requesting them to pay back $12500 right now.
  - MereInterest 5y ago
    I'm not a contact lawyer, but that sounds like it would be an invalid contract for lack of consideration. In the terms for future work being done, Upwork is requiring the freelancer to do more than a month of work without Upwork providing any consideration in return. No payment for work done, no promise not to extract the same unpaid labor again.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    This is one of the most disingenious and bent takes i have seen in my life. its like arguing that homeopathy shitheads that 'helps with cancer' are not scammers because of placebo effect

throwaway14356 5y ago

the credit card is also a party. a significant one in that they do the chargeback. this is why credit cards are not that popular in europe.

jessaustin 5y ago
The only time I've been to Europe was an airport layover, so hopefully you can answer my dumb question: what sort of payment cards are popular in Europe? We periodically see threads on HN in which people who claim to be Europeans chastise Americans for our use of cash and/or checks. I had assumed that was because you thought credit cards were great. That may be wrong, but now I don't want to just assume you think debit cards are great. Maybe there is another sort of payment card?
- Macha 5y ago
  Debit cards are certainly the majority in my country. Banks offer subaccounts for people who reasonably don't want to connect their life savings to their payment card, or new vendors like revolut are popular for similar reasons.
  - freemint 5y ago
    Bunq is another alternative. I use both revolte and bunq
- CRConrad 5y ago
  As others have replied, debit cards. Credit cards, too; I've had at least one or two for over a decade. And have, uh, at least four; more probably five or six, at the moment. Only ever used... Three or four, in total, and I think only ever two in the same year. One form of actual piece-of-plastic physical card that's popular here in Finland is the combination debit-credit card. When I insert it into the checkout payment terminal it first gives me a selection of "Debit / Credit?", then I tap in my PIN, and then it either charges my bank account or my credit card, depending on which I selected in the first step. These same cards work in ATMs, and abroad too. I lifted cash in Turkey ten years ago, I think from Visa (IIRC my bank switched to MasterCard after that). In Sweden, supermarket payment terminals have one or two steps more: you need to confirm the amount, and if you want you can tap in an additional amount and have the cashier hand you cash in stead of going to an ATM. (Can't recall the order for sure; I think confirming the amount came first, before even selecting credit/debit, and the additional withdrawal last.) Never seen the amount confirmation in Finland; I suppose here it's taken for granted that it'll be the same as what the cashier just told you (and what you can see on the customer-facing display of their register, usually right next to the payment terminal). The additional cash withdrawal does exist (or at least did, can't recall when I last saw it) in some shops, but it's rare.