4 ms·

I'm not in either of these industries, but I suspect a major difference is that an airline owning a jet has a lot more leverage against potential malfeasance by

I'm not in either of these industries, but I suspect a major difference is that an airline owning a jet has a lot more leverage against potential malfeasance by the manufacturer than the average farmer has against John Deere.

nexuist 5y ago
Boeing can't afford to make missteps like this because Airbus will eat their lunch. I don't think JD has a duopoly partner to keep itself in check.
- hadlock 5y ago
  John Deer has many more competitors than Boeing; farm equipment runs at slow speeds using off the shelf industrial diesel engines, and never (intentionally) leaves the ground or exceeds 30mph. Most medium sized countries have tractor factories, as they're essential for food production for the population.
  - smallerfish 5y ago
    It looks like they have one significant competitor, New Holland (i.e. Cnh Industrial): https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=DE https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=DE, and two smaller that are worth mentioning: Massey Ferguson (Agco), and apparently Emerson (though I couldn't find which brands they own at a quick kagi'ing.) Boeing actually seems to have more diverse competition, including Lockheed, Northrup, etc (although they're dominant in the commercial airplanes segment, where airbus isn't mentioned, so maybe these stats are US market only): https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=BA https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=BA
    - matthias509 5y ago
      Case International Harvester https://www.caseih.com https://www.caseih.com is also a big player.
  - matthias509 5y ago
    Not a farmer but worked on one growing up and my in-laws farm several thousand acres. The existence of a competitor to JD is one thing, the distance from farm to dealer is another. If the competitor dealership is 75 miles away and JD is 20 miles away that can be a major factor. Being able to get service in the field quickly is critical during planting or harvest. During these times downtime can be exceedingly expensive if the farmer is trying to beat some change in weather. And sure you could try and get someone other than the dealer to work on it, if you can find them. But trying to find this person when your equipment is broken and you are burning money isn’t a great option and the dealer will probably favor servicing clients who bought equipment from them.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    > farm equipment runs at slow speeds using off the shelf industrial diesel engines John Deere manufactures it’s own engines in many cases, but it also uses engines from other manufacturers. > never (intentionally) leaves the ground or exceeds 30mph Yes, aviation has a lot lower risk tolerance than agriculture, but ag equipment still kills plenty of people, and I’d probably rather be in a head-on collision with a honda civic going 50mph than an 8R going 30mph. > Most medium sized countries have tractor factories, as they're essential for food production for the population. Are you just reiterating that John Deere has more competitors? If so, I think this is misleading because most of these factories are just the same few competitors with factories in different companies (rather than distinct companies per country).
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  John Deer has a lot of Chinese competition, some of them their current and previous joint venture partners with suspicion of stolen IP.

nexuist 5y ago

Boeing can't afford to make missteps like this because Airbus will eat their lunch. I don't think JD has a duopoly partner to keep itself in check.

hadlock 5y ago
John Deer has many more competitors than Boeing; farm equipment runs at slow speeds using off the shelf industrial diesel engines, and never (intentionally) leaves the ground or exceeds 30mph. Most medium sized countries have tractor factories, as they're essential for food production for the population.
- smallerfish 5y ago
  It looks like they have one significant competitor, New Holland (i.e. Cnh Industrial): https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=DE https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=DE, and two smaller that are worth mentioning: Massey Ferguson (Agco), and apparently Emerson (though I couldn't find which brands they own at a quick kagi'ing.) Boeing actually seems to have more diverse competition, including Lockheed, Northrup, etc (although they're dominant in the commercial airplanes segment, where airbus isn't mentioned, so maybe these stats are US market only): https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=BA https://csimarket.com/stocks/competitionSEG2.php?code=BA
  - matthias509 5y ago
    Case International Harvester https://www.caseih.com https://www.caseih.com is also a big player.
- matthias509 5y ago
  Not a farmer but worked on one growing up and my in-laws farm several thousand acres. The existence of a competitor to JD is one thing, the distance from farm to dealer is another. If the competitor dealership is 75 miles away and JD is 20 miles away that can be a major factor. Being able to get service in the field quickly is critical during planting or harvest. During these times downtime can be exceedingly expensive if the farmer is trying to beat some change in weather. And sure you could try and get someone other than the dealer to work on it, if you can find them. But trying to find this person when your equipment is broken and you are burning money isn’t a great option and the dealer will probably favor servicing clients who bought equipment from them.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  > farm equipment runs at slow speeds using off the shelf industrial diesel engines John Deere manufactures it’s own engines in many cases, but it also uses engines from other manufacturers. > never (intentionally) leaves the ground or exceeds 30mph Yes, aviation has a lot lower risk tolerance than agriculture, but ag equipment still kills plenty of people, and I’d probably rather be in a head-on collision with a honda civic going 50mph than an 8R going 30mph. > Most medium sized countries have tractor factories, as they're essential for food production for the population. Are you just reiterating that John Deere has more competitors? If so, I think this is misleading because most of these factories are just the same few competitors with factories in different companies (rather than distinct companies per country).
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
John Deer has a lot of Chinese competition, some of them their current and previous joint venture partners with suspicion of stolen IP.