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The point of medication is not to always numb your brain but temporary ease the pain until you can stand on your own feet again. When life goes so wrong for som

The point of medication is not to always numb your brain but temporary ease the pain until you can stand on your own feet again. When life goes so wrong for some people and their brain pain signal is so high that you can't even get out of bed, those medications help. It helps them to sleep and think less until they start to think correctly. The issue today, is that people are expected to be productive all the time despite the isolation, low wages, lack of ownership, purpose, meaning and the raising inequality. And it is often those who are perceptive enough that tend to suffer more. If you don't want medications, then people need to have enough safety net to be unproductive for at least 3 to 6 months with some basic care, and this is luxury few people have.

pdimitar 5y ago
I am not arguing with the desired outcome. But what I've seen more often than not is that people get addicted to the pills and never do stand on their own feet again. And I agree with your second paragraph completely. I am sick of society pretending that people are "sick". They are not. They are responding naturally to an increasingly hostile world.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  I'm sick of people pretending that they know more about brain chemistry and human behavior than the thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic, but here we are with your dismissive posts. Some people eventually get off the medications. Some can't function without them. Your attitude is akin to being upset because once a paraplegic is in a wheelchair that they never just get up and try to walk again.
  - pdimitar 5y ago
    I only see one upset person here and it's not me. It will help if you read more slowly and if you don't get outraged during the process. Then you'll see that not one thing you said was something that I claimed. I never said not even one of the things you claim that I did. A bit of a puzzling comment you posted, man. Another hint: those thousands of professionals have a perverse monetary incentive. Food for thought. Some do good; I've met a few. Many others simply look annoyed and just hand you a prescription. We should do something about the latter.
    - JulianChastain 5y ago
      In your original comment, you were "expressing skepticism that any medication will at all help with anything." This is an absolute statement that is directly contradicted by "Some [patients] can't function without [their medication]." Its ironic you criticize the reading skills of your interlocutor
      - pdimitar 5y ago
        dang 5y ago
        You broke the site guidelines egregiously both by starting this flamewar and then perpetuating it with dozens of posts like this. That's seriously uncool. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29868497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29868497 and stop doing this from now on. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - astrange 5y ago
    Note that the right amount of knowledge to have about "brain chemistry" is none; we don't know how antidepressants work. The difference is uninformed commenters seem to think it's all serotonin levels. They are effective though.
    - burntoutfire 5y ago
      I wonder how they compare vs alcohol, the other numbing agent that is widely used to treat depression.
  - Levitz 5y ago
    >I'm sick of people pretending that they know more about brain chemistry and human behavior than the thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic The "thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic" were mislead by pharma companies propagating the erroneous idea that depression and other problems are just chemical imbalances in the brain that are to be fixed with medication and that's that. So you can hardly blame them.
  - dang 5y ago
    Please stop breaking the site guidelines, no matter how wrong someone or you feel they are. Perhaps you don't feel you owe them better, but you definitely owe this community better if you're participating in it—regardless of how right you are or feel you are. We've had to ask you about this many times: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28981889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28981889 (Oct 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28952194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28952194 (Oct 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648887 (June 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052513 (May 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14405337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14405337 (May 2017) That's not cool, and will eventually get you banned. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and eliminate this pattern, we'd appreciate it.
- aogaili 5y ago
  I'd agree with you here, there is a tendency to overprescribe, and I think depression is showing a natural response to unhealthy and difficult condition (perceived or actual). Are they "sick"? well technically yes, just like one could have a flu and can't work. I think a better analogy would be injury, it is as if the mind is injured, kind like a broken leg that you can't walk on. Psychiatrist and family member tend to fear relapses, and typically the effort required to enhance the situation is tremendous, and some situations are simply not fixable, they need to be accepted, time need to pass for healing, and attention need to be shifted elsewhere. The person would certainly lose some confidence in their own ability to withstand future pressures and tend to fear relapses as well, and yes there are financial incentives to sell pills and pitch as an easy fix. Thus, there is a risk of being dependant on the pills. However, a good treatment plan is a mix of medicine and some form of talk/behavioural therapy. The medicine is designed to be temporary but might be necessary fix (unless there is a real hardware issue which I think is a rarity), and is usually combined with CTB and other form of talk/behavioural therapy aiming to strengthen healthy coping skills, eliminate damaging thoughts, change perception and take some actions. Do some people need medicine for lifetime? I don't know personally, but I've a feeling it is being overprescribed and it might cause more harm than good if taking for a long time. I mean, who knows what it does to the brain reward system if used long-term? I don't think it is well understood. Ideally, people are given the time/care to heal on their own, around 3 to 6 months at least for severe depression and usually the person emerges at the other end have different perspective/interests in life. But the problem is the economical system is setup for constant productivity and 6 months of downtime for many of us is simply not an option.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

pdimitar 5y ago

I am not arguing with the desired outcome. But what I've seen more often than not is that people get addicted to the pills and never do stand on their own feet again. And I agree with your second paragraph completely. I am sick of society pretending that people are "sick". They are not. They are responding naturally to an increasingly hostile world.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago
I'm sick of people pretending that they know more about brain chemistry and human behavior than the thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic, but here we are with your dismissive posts. Some people eventually get off the medications. Some can't function without them. Your attitude is akin to being upset because once a paraplegic is in a wheelchair that they never just get up and try to walk again.
- pdimitar 5y ago
  I only see one upset person here and it's not me. It will help if you read more slowly and if you don't get outraged during the process. Then you'll see that not one thing you said was something that I claimed. I never said not even one of the things you claim that I did. A bit of a puzzling comment you posted, man. Another hint: those thousands of professionals have a perverse monetary incentive. Food for thought. Some do good; I've met a few. Many others simply look annoyed and just hand you a prescription. We should do something about the latter.
  - JulianChastain 5y ago
    In your original comment, you were "expressing skepticism that any medication will at all help with anything." This is an absolute statement that is directly contradicted by "Some [patients] can't function without [their medication]." Its ironic you criticize the reading skills of your interlocutor
    - pdimitar 5y ago
      - dang 5y ago
        You broke the site guidelines egregiously both by starting this flamewar and then perpetuating it with dozens of posts like this. That's seriously uncool. Please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29868497 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29868497 and stop doing this from now on. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- astrange 5y ago
  Note that the right amount of knowledge to have about "brain chemistry" is none; we don't know how antidepressants work. The difference is uninformed commenters seem to think it's all serotonin levels. They are effective though.
  - burntoutfire 5y ago
    I wonder how they compare vs alcohol, the other numbing agent that is widely used to treat depression.
- Levitz 5y ago
  >I'm sick of people pretending that they know more about brain chemistry and human behavior than the thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic The "thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic" were mislead by pharma companies propagating the erroneous idea that depression and other problems are just chemical imbalances in the brain that are to be fixed with medication and that's that. So you can hardly blame them.
- dang 5y ago
  Please stop breaking the site guidelines, no matter how wrong someone or you feel they are. Perhaps you don't feel you owe them better, but you definitely owe this community better if you're participating in it—regardless of how right you are or feel you are. We've had to ask you about this many times: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28981889 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28981889 (Oct 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28952194 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28952194 (Oct 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648887 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27648887 (June 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052513 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27052513 (May 2021) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14405337 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14405337 (May 2017) That's not cool, and will eventually get you banned. If you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and eliminate this pattern, we'd appreciate it.
aogaili 5y ago
I'd agree with you here, there is a tendency to overprescribe, and I think depression is showing a natural response to unhealthy and difficult condition (perceived or actual). Are they "sick"? well technically yes, just like one could have a flu and can't work. I think a better analogy would be injury, it is as if the mind is injured, kind like a broken leg that you can't walk on. Psychiatrist and family member tend to fear relapses, and typically the effort required to enhance the situation is tremendous, and some situations are simply not fixable, they need to be accepted, time need to pass for healing, and attention need to be shifted elsewhere. The person would certainly lose some confidence in their own ability to withstand future pressures and tend to fear relapses as well, and yes there are financial incentives to sell pills and pitch as an easy fix. Thus, there is a risk of being dependant on the pills. However, a good treatment plan is a mix of medicine and some form of talk/behavioural therapy. The medicine is designed to be temporary but might be necessary fix (unless there is a real hardware issue which I think is a rarity), and is usually combined with CTB and other form of talk/behavioural therapy aiming to strengthen healthy coping skills, eliminate damaging thoughts, change perception and take some actions. Do some people need medicine for lifetime? I don't know personally, but I've a feeling it is being overprescribed and it might cause more harm than good if taking for a long time. I mean, who knows what it does to the brain reward system if used long-term? I don't think it is well understood. Ideally, people are given the time/care to heal on their own, around 3 to 6 months at least for severe depression and usually the person emerges at the other end have different perspective/interests in life. But the problem is the economical system is setup for constant productivity and 6 months of downtime for many of us is simply not an option.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]