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This FUD is not going to convince anyone to stop using Discord and IRC is not immune from this kind of childish meddling. Just a few months ago freenode underwe

This FUD is not going to convince anyone to stop using Discord and IRC is not immune from this kind of childish meddling. Just a few months ago freenode underwent a hostile takeover and unlike most Discord communities, it is probably not coming back from that BS.

bluecatswim 5y ago
To be fair that takeover was only possible because the owner of freenode sold the server to a malicious party which is only possible because you own the server, so that kinda reinforces parent's point.
- nexuist 5y ago
  As a freenode user I have no say over who the freenode owner is, much like I have no say over Discord's moderation policies. It's the same puppet with different masters; neither situation really empowers me. Yes I can always start my own IRC server but if nobody wants to join it what's the point? 99% of the battle is getting people into the same virtual room.
  - petre 5y ago
    You usually own the domain, unless you sell out of course. So you can start wherever you want from scratch on your own or on leased infrastructure. People will connect to the domain/irc network. I'm not saying you should use IRC over Discord, but hey, that's how the web got centralised and why certain platforms have lots power: because people just gave it to them. If Discord decides to monetize by leveraging ads, good luck to you and your community.
    - ziml77 5y ago
      You don't truly own the domain though. You rent it. You have to continually pay to maintain control over it. It also wouldn't be hard for the registrar to claim you violated their ToS and revoke your access to the domain (or if they don't think they can get away with that, then they can say that they failed to process your payment when the domain renews and then snatch it up instantly themselves so you can't get it back).
      - petre 5y ago
        Yes you have to continually pay pizza money, yearly, true. Rent a country level domain and it won't be revoked without a judicial order. Also rent from a registrar with good reputation.
  - bluecatswim 5y ago
    I don't know what a self-hosted service that lets every user have power over the instance would look like, but the original argument was that IRC gives you ownership over your own server. Hell, the "no say over the owner" argument isn't even restricted to self-hosted services, there have been numerous cases of a discord admin nuking the server over some petty drama.
iotku 5y ago
>IRC is not immune from this kind of childish meddling. IRC is just a protocol, Discord is a service provider. I'm in no control over what Discord deems appropriate and they can terminate my "server" (Guild) that they're letting me use at their own whim (or by accident) with little to no recourse. I can run my own IRC server or use a variety of preexisting IRC networks which typically are fairly lax on over-enforcement unlike Discord. >Just a few months ago freenode underwent a hostile takeover and unlike most Discord communities, it is probably not coming back from that BS. Similar to Discord, Freenode is a service provider. Should the folks who administrate a IRC network have goals that don't align with you (or there's a hostile takeover which changes the operation's goals) you can connect to a different IRC network, this is largely what happened in the case of Freenode -> libera. If Discord decides to nuke your guild there's not an alternate discord to connect to, they must switch to a different client and service. If an IRC network decides to nuke my channel I can just switch to a different network. Overall the likelihood of a well behaving guild on Discord getting nuked randomly is low, but regardless of Discord or IRC you should still have alternative methods of communications and not put all your eggs in one basket. You don't want to lose connections with all of the people you talk with because some moderator or IRCop got bored.
- movedx 5y ago
  You're still missing the bigger point: whether you're using Discord or IRC (as a service or not) if the server/network is taken away from you, your entire community has to almost start from scratch or pick up the pieces regardless of the platform being used. You'll all still be displaced and will have to gather again elsewhere. It's also complete bullshit that IRC somehow saves the day when it falls short on all the same points as Discord does with regards to saving messages, which it also doesn't do for, PLUS it falls short on some other critical points: too much client choice is a bad thing; it's complex to set up and is something you have to administrate; you have to keep it secure; IRC servers get targeted by (D)DoS attacks all the time - it's a hobby for some arseholes; people new to industry don't know what IRC is and are simply going to find it confusing; most of the teenage population on the planet is using Discord already (and as a primary communication channel). IRC is dead. Get over it.

bluecatswim 5y ago

To be fair that takeover was only possible because the owner of freenode sold the server to a malicious party which is only possible because you own the server, so that kinda reinforces parent's point.

nexuist 5y ago
As a freenode user I have no say over who the freenode owner is, much like I have no say over Discord's moderation policies. It's the same puppet with different masters; neither situation really empowers me. Yes I can always start my own IRC server but if nobody wants to join it what's the point? 99% of the battle is getting people into the same virtual room.
- petre 5y ago
  You usually own the domain, unless you sell out of course. So you can start wherever you want from scratch on your own or on leased infrastructure. People will connect to the domain/irc network. I'm not saying you should use IRC over Discord, but hey, that's how the web got centralised and why certain platforms have lots power: because people just gave it to them. If Discord decides to monetize by leveraging ads, good luck to you and your community.
  - ziml77 5y ago
    You don't truly own the domain though. You rent it. You have to continually pay to maintain control over it. It also wouldn't be hard for the registrar to claim you violated their ToS and revoke your access to the domain (or if they don't think they can get away with that, then they can say that they failed to process your payment when the domain renews and then snatch it up instantly themselves so you can't get it back).
    - petre 5y ago
      Yes you have to continually pay pizza money, yearly, true. Rent a country level domain and it won't be revoked without a judicial order. Also rent from a registrar with good reputation.
- bluecatswim 5y ago
  I don't know what a self-hosted service that lets every user have power over the instance would look like, but the original argument was that IRC gives you ownership over your own server. Hell, the "no say over the owner" argument isn't even restricted to self-hosted services, there have been numerous cases of a discord admin nuking the server over some petty drama.

iotku 5y ago

>IRC is not immune from this kind of childish meddling. IRC is just a protocol, Discord is a service provider. I'm in no control over what Discord deems appropriate and they can terminate my "server" (Guild) that they're letting me use at their own whim (or by accident) with little to no recourse. I can run my own IRC server or use a variety of preexisting IRC networks which typically are fairly lax on over-enforcement unlike Discord. >Just a few months ago freenode underwent a hostile takeover and unlike most Discord communities, it is probably not coming back from that BS. Similar to Discord, Freenode is a service provider. Should the folks who administrate a IRC network have goals that don't align with you (or there's a hostile takeover which changes the operation's goals) you can connect to a different IRC network, this is largely what happened in the case of Freenode -> libera. If Discord decides to nuke your guild there's not an alternate discord to connect to, they must switch to a different client and service. If an IRC network decides to nuke my channel I can just switch to a different network. Overall the likelihood of a well behaving guild on Discord getting nuked randomly is low, but regardless of Discord or IRC you should still have alternative methods of communications and not put all your eggs in one basket. You don't want to lose connections with all of the people you talk with because some moderator or IRCop got bored.

movedx 5y ago
You're still missing the bigger point: whether you're using Discord or IRC (as a service or not) if the server/network is taken away from you, your entire community has to almost start from scratch or pick up the pieces regardless of the platform being used. You'll all still be displaced and will have to gather again elsewhere. It's also complete bullshit that IRC somehow saves the day when it falls short on all the same points as Discord does with regards to saving messages, which it also doesn't do for, PLUS it falls short on some other critical points: too much client choice is a bad thing; it's complex to set up and is something you have to administrate; you have to keep it secure; IRC servers get targeted by (D)DoS attacks all the time - it's a hobby for some arseholes; people new to industry don't know what IRC is and are simply going to find it confusing; most of the teenage population on the planet is using Discord already (and as a primary communication channel). IRC is dead. Get over it.