39 ms·
Drones used by farmers could be spying
- emodendroket 5y agoSo, am I misreading this, or is the risk, attributed to an anonymous source, entirely theoretical, based on what the companies "might" do, since the government "might" call on them to do it?
- ozfive 5y agoSomething else was found and they aren't saying.
- emodendroket 5y agoI don't buy it. I think if they had something they wouldn't run with a piece this vague and noncommittal. There's no meat here.
- toss1 5y agoWhen critical information is found, intelligence agencies often do NOT want to expose it, at least to the extent that the release could reveal HOW they found it, and thus alert the adversary to the leak path so they shut it off. This is just bog-standard operating procedure. Just because they aren't telling us, does NOT mean we can therefore infer that nothing more exists.
- emodendroket 5y agoHere is my guess: as you probably know, how much engagement to have with China is a hot-button topic in Taiwanese politics. If you were the type who thought less, why not call up a friendly reporter on background and get him to write up an ominous report on what China could, thereotically, do, based on absolutely nothing. The alternative of "let's just assume spies have something they don't wish to disclose, except they kind of do and want to put it in the papers" strikes me as a bit too trusting but I can't tell you what to think.
- TooSmugToFail 5y agoThis is not just Taiwan. US has all but banned Chinese drones for most govt-related flight ops. Japan has banned Chinese drones. In Europe, internal risk-assessment memos are circulating advising security agencies to avoid using Chinese drones. You’re missing a massive part of the context here. This particular article may be missing factual evidence to support some of the voiced concerns, but it’s hardly a singular shout in an ocean of silence. It strongly resonates with a rather diverse chorus of voices coming from multiple independent sources. So yeah, it’s a thing.
- emodendroket 5y agoYes, I am well aware that there is an internationally-coordinated "decoupling" campaign from China, which is precisely why I view this story as politically motivated and intentionally misleading. In fact, dubious stories like this are essential to the operation -- you have to give some sort of public cover to get people onboard. There's a reason spies so much time "leaking" stuff to the press.
- ozfive 5y agoThis is absolutely 100% correct. Perfect explanation for what I was unable to espouse.
- smitty1e 5y agoI think the point is worth foot-stomping that the technology doesn't care. Capabilities and data exist, they will be leveraged however they are leveraged. Legal restrictions are good as far as they are heeded. Legal restrictions usually include some "emergency" exception mechanism. The government merely needs to torture some facts to meet "emergency" criteria, and, behold!, all of those heretofore useful capabilities do the unexpected. One can call this an "entirely theoretical risk", but, given recent abuses, others might call it an inevitability.
- emodendroket 5y agoThen autarky is the only answer, because it's hardly a problem unique to China. Companies pretty much everywhere answer to intelligence services' demands, unless they're operating in a country that's a basket case with incredibly weak control.
- halpert 5y agoHave you ever heard of threat analysis? If someone was already doing something, it may be too late. I assume you use a password even though your sensitive accounts may have never been hacked.
- emodendroket 5y agoThe article and headline are, in my view anyway, designed to confuse the reader into believing that there is some evidence that the drones are doing this.
- pphysch 5y agoYes. The same claims could be made by any government about any perceived threat actor. It's mostly politics in this case.
- TooSmugToFail 5y agoRisk is, by definition, always theoretical. In assessing risk of the kind we are discussing here, you are literally estimating (guessing) two things: (1) likelihood and (2) severity of an unwanted event. So yes, this risk is also “theoretical.” Now, given the track record of the Chinese government in matters of this type, it is highly likely they will use their legal right and get the information they want/need. As regards severity, this element is individual: what could be the damage if a particular piece of information would leak? The more sensitive information is, the more damaging the leak may be (and more likely it will be wanted/needed). So if we’re talking about Taiwan, then yeah, aerial imaging information is probably quite pertinent to the Chinese government interest, sensitive or not. So I’d say this risk is material. Plus, I have heard plenty of first-hand accounts indicating certain Chinese drone company being very cosy with the Government, enjoying massive subsidies, so likely cooperating without much hand-twisting needed.
- emodendroket 5y agoOK, well, we know the US actually does this. And any other country besides China could just as plausibly do it, since I'm not aware of any that gives companies an exemption from complying with the authorities, especially in matters of supposed "national security." So what's actually here besides "I think we should not do business with Chinese people at all because they cannot be trusted in any instance"? Nothing, but it sounds more compelling when it's dressed up as though there's some find to justify the claim.
- sandworm101 5y agoKey point: this is from Taiwan. Taiwan faces a very real threat of literal invasion by china. Footage, any footage, would be of interest to chinese military planners. The location of small bridges, the state of private roads, whether fields are flooded ... if you are planning a ground invasion you cannot have too much terrain information. But no, that doesnt mean every chinese drone is a threat everywhere. The chinese are not going to backdoor a drone to get footage of some kid's pot plants behind a barn in Iowa.
- leemailll 5y agooh yeah, sounds like china can't afford a spy satellite
- sandworm101 5y agoSatellite images are to drone footage what Poleroid is to 4k hdr. Both are images but that is where all practical similarity ends.
- slimsag 5y agoI wonder how long this will be true. Right now I think the US has 10cm/pixel resolution, but I imagine it's not long before that is far better? It might already be, we just wouldn't know about it
- loonster 5y agoWe got the Hubble after they made spy satellites about the same size. Maybe there is the equivalent of the JWST looking down at us?
- mhh__ 5y agoJWST is fairly old tech now so probably better - by better I mean in some colloquial sense based on the passage of time, i.e. JWST would be pretty useless pointed at the earth one imagines.
- rmason 5y agoThe Chinese own over 2 million acres of American farmland, more than any other nation. By having that drone backdoor they can get advance information on the condition of all American crops. Possibly scout future land for purchase? They could acquire some of this information by satellite but the pictures from the drones are of higher quality. The American government has acted decisively to prevent to prevent Chinese telecom equipment being used in the telephone system where it could monitor our communications. They've also convinced Japan and most European nations of the same. Yet they aren't restricted from buying our farmland and monitoring our crops. Farmers are quite concerned about both but so far not the U.S Congress.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- pvg 5y agoThe Chinese own over 2 million acres of American farmland, more than any other nation. This doesn't line up with government reporting here: https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11977 https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IF/IF11977 Even if this wrong by a factor of 10 (which it would have to be to match your number), it's peanuts compared to the US Agricultural land owned by Canada and less than half of Dutch-owned land.
- rococode 5y agoWow, off topic but why do the Dutch own so much farmland in America!? That's an unexpected one... -- Ok, I searched around for a few minutes and this was the best answer I could find: > Stephen Raes, economic minister for the Netherlands embassy in Washington, D.C., explained in an article in USA Today that the Dutch nationalized pension system is about 130 percent the size of that nation’s gross domestic product, thus making it the world’s largest relative to the size of its economy. That pension plan favors conservative investments, such as American farmland, he said, adding that historically Dutch immigrants to the U.S. became Midwest farmers all throughout the 19th century. And apparently, they also own a fair amount of wind energy farms in the US.
- aaron695 5y ago
- lazyeye 5y agoChina has absolutely nothing to worry. The evidence is overwhelming that complacency is the dominant narrative here.
- pugworthy 5y agoThe truth is you can just say "[Internet connected devices] used by [persons] could be spying" and it's true.
- geocrasher 5y agoThis is correct. Whether it be because of a regime such as discussed in TFA or because of malware or just awful programming and infrastructure, this can be true.
- codr7 5y ago[flagged]
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- andy_ppp 5y agoOr they can just look on Google Maps? That will contain most features like foot bridges etc. I think the US would probably be the hardest country in the world to invade due to the amount of arms people have, even if you got past the army somehow you’re still in trouble. Has any thought been given to arming civilians in Taiwan as a further tactic to prevent invasion?
- 123pie123 5y agoIf there is concerns about cameras on drones, what about CCTV cameras in general? My mother just recently paid to have a few cameras installed, the cameras are magically on the cloud and accessible from her phone/ tablet, so that the footage could be viewed anywhere I've not had time to look at these cmeras yet but I suspect the cameras are sending the images back to the country of origin; where all the live video data would be extremly useful to a foreign miltary. a few ideas come to mind eg face recognition, number plate recognition, your wifi and password for other equipment to connect to, potential to access your local LAN etc..
- dheerajvs 5y agoThe very popular Chinese state-owned Hikvision cameras are known to have backdoors: https://ipvm.com/reports/hik-backdoor https://ipvm.com/reports/hik-backdoor It's puzzling why they are not yet banned in my country.
- Krasnol 5y agoSiemens is even RECOMMENDING Hikvision cameras to their clients...
- ahmed_ds 5y agoAnything with a camera that can connect to the internet and sold as a retail product could be spying. The problem with Government and Company surveillance is that if a device has a camera and can connect to the internet somehow, it might as well be sending unauthorized information to someone who is not the purchaser of that device. It shouldn't be that surprising to all of us here that there are Chinese internet connected security camera with IR that costs less than just the RPI camera module. Some of them even have free cloud storage offering! You can make a case of economies of scale and expertise and what not but on a economic level you have to at least entertain the idea that there is the possibility of these devices are generating revenue somehow after sales.
- 123pie123 5y ago>it might as well be sending unauthorized information to someone who is not the purchaser of that device. It shouldn't matter, getting hundreds of thousands of cameras collecting at least images/ video streams +wifi information and who knows what other sensors are in the cameras. Also this will lead to countries almost having blanket covereage. I've counted at least 10 to 20 cameras that I walk past on the way to my local pub (and also in almost every bloody pub and shops!!!!). if these are fitted near military bases extra bonus for intelligence finding!! I'm surprised that other countries are not subsidising almost free cameras to other countries(eg with free cloud storage), so that they could obtain this amount of intelligence