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This is more of a broader question, but when is it a good time to buy an EV? As someone who just recently got a model Y, seeing reports like this just frustrate

This is more of a broader question, but when is it a good time to buy an EV? As someone who just recently got a model Y, seeing reports like this just frustrate me. I thought about waiting until the rumored refresh but decided to go for it. Why get an EV if a newer one that's better in almost every way (range, cost, etc) is constantly just around the corner. As an example, I'm not kicking myself when the "all-new redesigned" 2021 Hyundai Tuscon comes out because while the face lift is nice, the car isn't that much better than the 2020 version. It gets similar gas mileage and has similar features. Sure there's a few nice things on the newer Tuscon but half of them could be on the old one with a software update.

deleted 5y ago
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bombcar 5y ago
You have to decouple the purchase from the potential future, just like we used to do in the late 90s/early 2000s with computers. So when it comes time, evaluate what is available and make a decision then - it's unlikely something comes out that makes all previous ones stop working after all. And you do get the utility during that time. If you're really concerned, look into leasing; they usually have a buyout option at the end.
ape4 5y ago
Am I the only one who doesn't want to buy "all-new redesigned" cars. I won't want an all new redesigned Operating System.
- politician 5y ago
  Why? There are far fewer parts in a car than an OS.
  - hedora 5y ago
    Modern cars are rolling local area networks that use a fragile real-time network (CAN bus) in addition to 4G bluetooth, and bespoke wireless network protocols. They include many operating systems, and all sorts of other unfathomable complexity.
    - striking 5y ago
      Many cars as far back as 2003, and all cars model year 2008 or newer in the US, use CAN Bus. Moreover, as far as real-time networking goes, CAN is pretty far from fragile.
      - hedora 5y ago
        I agree that it is more reliable than most realtime network protocols, but that’s a pretty low bar. Two of the three cars I’ve had with CAN busses had recalls due to CAN priority inversions. One couldn’t turn the ABS off when the rest of the car shutdown, so it would sometimes drain the battery if parked for more than 6 hours. The newer one gets into a state where the “turn off cruise control” signal gets preempted. The solution is to stand on the brake pedal and force it into neutral. (The transmission control is also on the CAN bus, from what I can tell.). Those two events together put the power train into some sort of panic mode, and it stops applying throttle to the engine. The fact that the network protocol has been around for a while is no reason to trust a first-year redesign of a vehicle platform.
  - jagger27 5y ago
    That doesn't really track since cars themselves have multiple operating systems. I don't want a mandatory software update that changes where my rear window defroster button is. I want a button. Is it so much to ask for a 90s BMW interior with a Tesla drive train? I think that's what GP is getting at.
- dehrmann 5y ago
  No. Redesigned cars are less reliable. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/to-get-the-most-reliable-new-car-it-pays-to-wait-a1174785565/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf... > CR’s proprietary analysis shows that vehicles tend to be most reliable by the final year of any particular model run (typically five to seven years), after many of the bugs have been worked out, and least reliable in the first year of a redesign, when freshly reconfigured and often touted as “all new.”
wolrah 5y ago
> Why get an EV if a newer one that's better in almost every way (range, cost, etc) is constantly just around the corner. It's just the nature of the beast when you're looking at a rapidly developing technology. Think of it like buying a cell phone in 2008. Buy it when it makes sense for you as it exists, and accept that anything you buy today is going to seem like old news in a few years. That said, the real developments as I see it have been in battery tech and fast charging. Unless you really care about the infotainment system or nonsense claims of the vehicle driving itself I can't say that I consider really any 250+ mile fast charge capable EV to be "obsolete". A first-gen Model S is still a solid EV almost a decade later.
pmorici 5y ago
Two thoughts. 1) The biggest benefit of this is manufacturing speed and cost neither of which affect you, especially since prices have been rising due to demand outstripping supply at the moment would be kind of silly to put off buying a car you other wise need to get this. 2) Despite what this article implies your Y’s rear end is already built with casting construction. The difference in Texas is they are also going to start doing it for the front piece. But again it is not something the end user would notice so unless you are trying to calculate Tesla profit margins it kind of doesn’t matter.
speedgoose 5y ago
A good time to buy an EV is when you can afford one and it fits your needs. I don't regret buying my first gen i3 years ago. I also got a model y recently and it's a much better ev but the i3 is still useful.
redindian75 5y ago
Tesla is one of those cars which gets BETTER with time. I have a 2018 Model 3, it is a MUCH better car than it was 3 years back. Not just cosmetic changes, they UPGRADED my CPU to handle more advance calculations (for free), constant software updates to make it better every 2 weeks. I reminds me of iOS updates, but more frequent & more consequential (added features which let me monitor the parking lot remotely/visually before reaching the car etc) Our Battery packs are good for 400,000-1million miles depending on model. What more could u ask for? 420,000 mile? 1.1m miles? The point is, it is already as good as it gets as of TODAY, future efficiencies will always be there. But that is out in the future. Also, these are MANUFACTURING efficiencies , the end result for consumer is same/almost same. I was an exclusive BMW driver for 15 years before moved to Model 3 - I enjoy every bit of it. Never ever had buyers remorse.
- joenathanone 5y ago
  > they UPGRADED my CPU to handle more advance calculations (for free) No they didn’t, I assume you are taking about the Autopilot computer upgrade, that upgrade isn’t free, you only get it if you’ve paid for the FSD upgrade and the are only doing it because the previous computer wasn’t powerful enough to deliver FSD.
  - redindian75 5y ago
    yes - but I originally had paid for FSD half of what it costs today ($12k). They could have easily asked me to pay the difference. It comes with a premiere customer experience, not a nickel n dime car dealership experience.
    - maxwell86 5y ago
      So you paid 12k for a feature that was delivered to you 3 years after getting your car? Tell us more.
papito 5y ago
To me, the decision would be driven by access to charge networks.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  If you road trip a bunch, it definitely makes a difference. It was less hassle to road trip my Model 3 than it is to road trip my wife's Bolt. However, that said, for every 1 time I use a DC fast charger, I charge up at home perhaps 150 times. And that experience is the same for any EV. For one or two mild road trips a year to visit relatives, it isn't a huge factor in which car I choose; the day-to-day experience is much more important.
  - papito 5y ago
    Right. I think people overwhelmingly recharge at home, and if you live in, say, an NYC or Chicago apartment building, owning an EV can be a major hassle. I have almost never seen Teslas parked in Manhattan streets, but in outer boroughs, private residences have a Tesla at every 3rd house (I am barely exaggerating).
martythemaniak 5y ago
Number one rule of buying a Tesla: be happy with what you got when you got it for how much you paid. They redesign then continuously, so there's never a "good" time to buy. For example, over the next 12-18 months the Model Y will start getting front castings (but only ones coming out from Texas), AMD Ryzen, then 2170 cells, then FSD hardware v4. But if you decide to wait for these things, then there'll be another slew of changes waiting to happen.
- adam_arthur 5y ago
  I dunno. The marginal value to waiting another year is likely much higher today than it will be a few years from now. The newer tech is, the more value there is to waiting generally. Of course, really just depends on your personality, and how cost constrained you are. I specifically chose not to buy an EV because I know within 5 years the tech will be much better, and infrastructure won't be as much of a pain.
  - richardwhiuk 5y ago
    That's 5 years where you won't have an EV - depends on what the utility you get in those 5 years.
    - adam_arthur 5y ago
      You're right that utility and opportunity cost of that lost utility matters. My personal utility for an EV is largely negative in the short term though. Too bleeding edge, higher risk that technology shifts such that current models devalue quickly, fewer charging stations than gas stations. Current range is sufficient at purchase, but how does range change as vehicle ages? A lot of those things will be much improved over the coming years. I don't gain anything from converting in the short term other than the aspirational/goodwill parts
pokerhobo 5y ago
Consider that Tesla has been consistently raising prices due to parts and demand, the best time was probably yesterday.
xeromal 5y ago
You just have classic FOMO and with Teslas, you have to override your monkey brain to stop wanting the latest and greatest. When I was younger in my 20s, my brain compelled me to buy the newest Android. I loved having the new tech and I always thought I could sell my old phones before they became obsolete. Teslas feel very similar to that high you get from having the latest phone. I own a 2017 model S and it seems every 6 months my car becomes more legacy. First it was all the packages (Cold weather, premium upgrades, etc) becoming standard when you had to pay for the packages. Then it was HW 3.0 & MCU 2 for advanced screen graphics and playing Netflix. Also capability for Full Self driving. Then it was the raven air suspension. Then it was model 3 and model Ys getting external pedestrian speakers that could play music. Then it was a heat pump. Then it was being to roll your windows up and down through the phone app. Then it was faster super charging. Then it was new, fun video games. Then it was a rectangular screen that can play witcher and tilt (eventually) Then it was more battery range. ...and so on. That's all I could list off my memory but I bet you I missed 50% of the updates. The moment you buy a Tesla, it'll be out of date in a couple of months. It is what it is.
- jeffwilcox 5y ago
  Came here to look for this list ;-) Don't get me started on my new Model Y that doesn't have the game controller-only games... or my Model S that doesn't let me actually play games in the back. Wait, it's a car, I'll be fine.
01100011 5y ago
I leased my Bolt. I figured I would buy it out when the lease expires unless current EVs are competitive, but now, I don't know, maybe I'll just keep leasing. EVs feel less like buying a car and more like buying a really expensive PC in that the minute you buy it, it already seems somewhat outdated. Sure, you can get that feeling with an IC car, but IME the updates are less frequent and the technology is more mature. My '17 Subaru feels a bit dated, but that's nothing I couldn't fix with a simple head unit upgrade.
- laurent92 5y ago
  When leasing, do you have to be extra-careful with not dirtying/brushing/hitting the exterior or interior? The whole experience of owning is having much less to worry about being “told off by the parents” when you give it back.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Wear and tear is expected. If you get in an accident, you have it repaired just like you would if you owned it. If you beat it to hell then you can expect an adjustment to the value, just as if you tried to sell your own car after treating it that way. As long as it doesn't have collision damage, tires that are bald to unsafe levels, or a trashed interior, the guy at the dealer you hand the keys to is unlikely to care (it's not like the dealer owns it). They're just going to ship it off to auction and the detailers will clean it up and resell it.
- ec109685 5y ago
  Leasing unless the manufacturer is doing something weird to hit quotas is equivalent to financing the car for 3 years and then selling it, so there aren’t big financial advantages one way or another, with financing giving you more flexibility.
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
    Definitely you get more flexibility when financing, which is good if you like to keep cars a long time, or a short time. The latter being a surprisingly common situation. Some people figure a lease is a good way to have new cars pretty often, but don't realize that 3 years is still a fairly long time if you are a car spaz. It's nice, though, to pre-negotiate the end of the ownership experience, selling cars to private individuals is frequently a great big hassle and trading in is a great way to spend several thousand extra dollars just to avoid that hassle.
jeffwilcox 5y ago
It's almost best to disconnect from the forums and fans after taking delivery. The ordering, waiting, and delivery process really do require us all to connect - if only for mutual support through frustration - There is an aspect of "who cares" when I hear about slightly different door panels, or heated windshield wipers, or a manufacturing improvement for newer cars being built. Yet it's easy to get lost in the "OMG THE NEW HEADLIGHTS MY CAR IS RUBBISH" world, too. Enjoy any EV, when you're ready, it'll be a great car for many years.
Gareth321 5y ago
I'm right there with you. The rate of improvement is much higher for EVs right now than ICE, and it means they [should] lose relative value much faster (covid issues aside). I solved this by simply identifying the red lines for me. What can I absolutely not live without for any reason? If I can get those and EV improvements, then I'm in. Sadly EVs cannot give me my hard red line requirement yet: range. My cheap Honda Civic gets me 700km+ on the motorway on a single tank, and it doesn't have optimal charging ranges, nor does it lose a significant amount of range in the cold. I'm waiting for at least 1,000km WLTP range in something like a Model Y before migrating. At current pace this looks to be some time in the next five years.
- hedora 5y ago
  Out of curiosity, what’s your use case for such a high range? 1,000km is 8-10 hours of uninterrupted driving. You can already go (almost) everywhere in the US with an EV, and the US is more spread out than, say, Europe. Is this range requirement for the Australian outback or something?
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
    If you live in Texas that level of range is a pretty hard requirement. Going outside of Houston or the 35 arterial of DFW/Austin/San Antonio still requires that level of range. The rural fast charging infra is coming along, but still not where it needs to be to comfortably drive an EV to a lot of Texas without some careful planning.
  - Gareth321 5y ago
    I live in Denmark where it's prohibitively expensive to own two cars. This is common for most of Europe. So our one car needs to handle not just daily commuting (where an EVs excel), but also the longer trips we regularly take to other countries. These are easily 1,000+km and an EV would add 2-3+ hours to the already long trip. EVs make a lot more sense when a family can own 2-3 cars and they can rotate their commute car with their road trip car.
mdasen 5y ago
The same reason you get a smartphone or laptop. There's always a better one coming, but you need it. Really, articles hype up changes that tend to be marginal. I'm not saying that Tesla isn't doing good work or that companies don't improve products. But most of the time, there aren't really big improvements. Cars from a decade ago are fine. Sure, I wish I had CarPlay, but it's fine and there's always something new coming. At some point in your life, you either learn to live with being slightly outdated or you spend a lot of money. Frankly, some of it is perception. You've talked about the 2021 Hyundai Tucson and I'm not sure if you mean the 2022 model-year Tucson. The 2021 model didn't have a facelift and the 2022 model is actually all new - more all-new than the Model Y update. It's half-a-foot longer, has an additional 6 cubic feet of passenger space, 8 more cubic feet of cargo space, 3.5 more inches of rear-seat legroom. It has a new engine offering 23 more horsepower (14% more). Hybrid and plug-in-hybrid versions are available. Now, you might not care about any of those changes, but it definitely wasn't a facelift. What does the new Model Y offer? Potentially 16% increased range, but Tesla might just convert that into cost savings for them. Right now, Tesla is reliant on government subsidies for its profits and with those potentially dwindling over time, they might be looking to cut costs more than offer better range. Will the chassis be better? Maybe, but it's also possible that the first few quarters (or years) could have quality issues. Cutting edge stuff can end up cutting you. Stuff sounds impressive and sometimes hits the market as "meh". I mean, Mazda's Skyactiv was supposed to be revolutionary. Mazda hasn't been making bad cars, but it's definitely "meh". Fuel economy numbers are worse than most competitors now and power isn't amazing either. A Mazda 3 ends up way behind a Honda Civic for fuel economy and on-par for power. All that cleaner-burning, high-compressions stuff kinda leading to nothing. Mazda says that their Skyactiv-Body is 8% lighter and 30% more rigid, but it doesn't seem to be anything to write home about. If Tesla introduces a new Model Y with those new batteries, it seems likely that the new models will have a similar range, with some lowered costs for Tesla. Maybe 5% better range and 10% cost savings for Tesla (I'd love to be proven wrong on this). Likewise, the chassis is probably going to be a marginal improvement, but the big thing is likely to be that Tesla has never figured out quality control on their assembly and so they're trying to get rid of that - and pass it off as an amazing feature. And I'm not trying to say that I don't like progress and that marginal progress isn't important. Marginal progress adds up over time. I'm just saying that the new Model Y probably won't be as much of an upgrade as it feels right now. I showed that the Tucson had a lot of new stuff, but to you it's just a facelift. If the new Model Y comes out looking exactly the same with the same range, but there might be some chassis difference you can't see (and realistically probably can't feel), are you going to think that's a major upgrade because Tesla altered its manufacturing in a way that doesn't impact your experience of the product? No, that wouldn't feel like an upgrade at all. Again, I like that Tesla is pushing things forward and that's important, but car companies are always coming out with "all new" stuff that often doesn't feel like a big upgrade when you actually get your hands on the product. The number of times that I've heard about chassis getting more rigid is just incredible. And, to be fair, cars are much better, but if you get a new car every decade or so and ignore the hype train, you're fine. If you get a new smartphone every 2 or 3 years, you're fine. But they're always looking to talk up how this year's version is revolutionary! Those things rarely happen. If you wanted a Tesla, the Model 3/Y was revolutionary insofar as they had an affordable price point. It seems unlikely that we're going to see a lot more revolutionary stuff. That's not to say Teslas are bad. It's just that "3% more range" or "maybe better cornering if you're going 120MPH...except that's illegal" aren't really revolutionary. If there's another Tesla revolution to happen, it's going to be a $20,000-25,000 mass-market car (that isn't nearly as nice as the Model 3). But look at the Model S. Has there been revolutions there? To me, this article sounds like the type of thing I read about Apple sourcing displays from new companies. It's more about business sense for Apple than it really is about the product in my hand. The new chassis seems like an attempt to overcome Tesla's quality problems (which also seem to get more complaints on the Model Y). The new battery packs seem like a modest improvement over the old ones (Tesla is claiming 16%) which might show up in improved range, but might end up more in cost savings. There's always something new. Most of the time it's a marginal improvement. Even big changes can feel like just a facelift if you don't get hyped for them.
dehrmann 5y ago
> As someone who just recently got a model Y, seeing reports like this just frustrate me. I'm not sure if you'd actually notice the difference, and it's Tesla, so you'd want to give them a few years to work out the kinks.
rad_gruchalski 5y ago
> but when is it a good time to buy an EV? As someone who just recently got a model Y, seeing reports like this just frustrate me I was listening to Chris Harris a little while ago. He made a great point that over the next few years the cars will go through a similar transition loop as a cell phone went in last 10 years. Every six months your best of breed car will feel old. I’m dreading going electric, it just doesn’t amuse me at all but if I have to, not before 2025 for sure.

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bombcar 5y ago

You have to decouple the purchase from the potential future, just like we used to do in the late 90s/early 2000s with computers. So when it comes time, evaluate what is available and make a decision then - it's unlikely something comes out that makes all previous ones stop working after all. And you do get the utility during that time. If you're really concerned, look into leasing; they usually have a buyout option at the end.

ape4 5y ago

Am I the only one who doesn't want to buy "all-new redesigned" cars. I won't want an all new redesigned Operating System.

politician 5y ago
Why? There are far fewer parts in a car than an OS.
- hedora 5y ago
  Modern cars are rolling local area networks that use a fragile real-time network (CAN bus) in addition to 4G bluetooth, and bespoke wireless network protocols. They include many operating systems, and all sorts of other unfathomable complexity.
  - striking 5y ago
    Many cars as far back as 2003, and all cars model year 2008 or newer in the US, use CAN Bus. Moreover, as far as real-time networking goes, CAN is pretty far from fragile.
    - hedora 5y ago
      I agree that it is more reliable than most realtime network protocols, but that’s a pretty low bar. Two of the three cars I’ve had with CAN busses had recalls due to CAN priority inversions. One couldn’t turn the ABS off when the rest of the car shutdown, so it would sometimes drain the battery if parked for more than 6 hours. The newer one gets into a state where the “turn off cruise control” signal gets preempted. The solution is to stand on the brake pedal and force it into neutral. (The transmission control is also on the CAN bus, from what I can tell.). Those two events together put the power train into some sort of panic mode, and it stops applying throttle to the engine. The fact that the network protocol has been around for a while is no reason to trust a first-year redesign of a vehicle platform.
- jagger27 5y ago
  That doesn't really track since cars themselves have multiple operating systems. I don't want a mandatory software update that changes where my rear window defroster button is. I want a button. Is it so much to ask for a 90s BMW interior with a Tesla drive train? I think that's what GP is getting at.
dehrmann 5y ago
No. Redesigned cars are less reliable. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/to-get-the-most-reliable-new-car-it-pays-to-wait-a1174785565/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf... > CR’s proprietary analysis shows that vehicles tend to be most reliable by the final year of any particular model run (typically five to seven years), after many of the bugs have been worked out, and least reliable in the first year of a redesign, when freshly reconfigured and often touted as “all new.”

wolrah 5y ago

> Why get an EV if a newer one that's better in almost every way (range, cost, etc) is constantly just around the corner. It's just the nature of the beast when you're looking at a rapidly developing technology. Think of it like buying a cell phone in 2008. Buy it when it makes sense for you as it exists, and accept that anything you buy today is going to seem like old news in a few years. That said, the real developments as I see it have been in battery tech and fast charging. Unless you really care about the infotainment system or nonsense claims of the vehicle driving itself I can't say that I consider really any 250+ mile fast charge capable EV to be "obsolete". A first-gen Model S is still a solid EV almost a decade later.

pmorici 5y ago

Two thoughts. 1) The biggest benefit of this is manufacturing speed and cost neither of which affect you, especially since prices have been rising due to demand outstripping supply at the moment would be kind of silly to put off buying a car you other wise need to get this. 2) Despite what this article implies your Y’s rear end is already built with casting construction. The difference in Texas is they are also going to start doing it for the front piece. But again it is not something the end user would notice so unless you are trying to calculate Tesla profit margins it kind of doesn’t matter.

speedgoose 5y ago

A good time to buy an EV is when you can afford one and it fits your needs. I don't regret buying my first gen i3 years ago. I also got a model y recently and it's a much better ev but the i3 is still useful.

redindian75 5y ago

Tesla is one of those cars which gets BETTER with time. I have a 2018 Model 3, it is a MUCH better car than it was 3 years back. Not just cosmetic changes, they UPGRADED my CPU to handle more advance calculations (for free), constant software updates to make it better every 2 weeks. I reminds me of iOS updates, but more frequent & more consequential (added features which let me monitor the parking lot remotely/visually before reaching the car etc) Our Battery packs are good for 400,000-1million miles depending on model. What more could u ask for? 420,000 mile? 1.1m miles? The point is, it is already as good as it gets as of TODAY, future efficiencies will always be there. But that is out in the future. Also, these are MANUFACTURING efficiencies , the end result for consumer is same/almost same. I was an exclusive BMW driver for 15 years before moved to Model 3 - I enjoy every bit of it. Never ever had buyers remorse.

joenathanone 5y ago
> they UPGRADED my CPU to handle more advance calculations (for free) No they didn’t, I assume you are taking about the Autopilot computer upgrade, that upgrade isn’t free, you only get it if you’ve paid for the FSD upgrade and the are only doing it because the previous computer wasn’t powerful enough to deliver FSD.
- redindian75 5y ago
  yes - but I originally had paid for FSD half of what it costs today ($12k). They could have easily asked me to pay the difference. It comes with a premiere customer experience, not a nickel n dime car dealership experience.
  - maxwell86 5y ago
    So you paid 12k for a feature that was delivered to you 3 years after getting your car? Tell us more.

papito 5y ago

To me, the decision would be driven by access to charge networks.

rootusrootus 5y ago
If you road trip a bunch, it definitely makes a difference. It was less hassle to road trip my Model 3 than it is to road trip my wife's Bolt. However, that said, for every 1 time I use a DC fast charger, I charge up at home perhaps 150 times. And that experience is the same for any EV. For one or two mild road trips a year to visit relatives, it isn't a huge factor in which car I choose; the day-to-day experience is much more important.
- papito 5y ago
  Right. I think people overwhelmingly recharge at home, and if you live in, say, an NYC or Chicago apartment building, owning an EV can be a major hassle. I have almost never seen Teslas parked in Manhattan streets, but in outer boroughs, private residences have a Tesla at every 3rd house (I am barely exaggerating).

martythemaniak 5y ago

Number one rule of buying a Tesla: be happy with what you got when you got it for how much you paid. They redesign then continuously, so there's never a "good" time to buy. For example, over the next 12-18 months the Model Y will start getting front castings (but only ones coming out from Texas), AMD Ryzen, then 2170 cells, then FSD hardware v4. But if you decide to wait for these things, then there'll be another slew of changes waiting to happen.

adam_arthur 5y ago
I dunno. The marginal value to waiting another year is likely much higher today than it will be a few years from now. The newer tech is, the more value there is to waiting generally. Of course, really just depends on your personality, and how cost constrained you are. I specifically chose not to buy an EV because I know within 5 years the tech will be much better, and infrastructure won't be as much of a pain.
- richardwhiuk 5y ago
  That's 5 years where you won't have an EV - depends on what the utility you get in those 5 years.
  - adam_arthur 5y ago
    You're right that utility and opportunity cost of that lost utility matters. My personal utility for an EV is largely negative in the short term though. Too bleeding edge, higher risk that technology shifts such that current models devalue quickly, fewer charging stations than gas stations. Current range is sufficient at purchase, but how does range change as vehicle ages? A lot of those things will be much improved over the coming years. I don't gain anything from converting in the short term other than the aspirational/goodwill parts

pokerhobo 5y ago

Consider that Tesla has been consistently raising prices due to parts and demand, the best time was probably yesterday.

xeromal 5y ago

You just have classic FOMO and with Teslas, you have to override your monkey brain to stop wanting the latest and greatest. When I was younger in my 20s, my brain compelled me to buy the newest Android. I loved having the new tech and I always thought I could sell my old phones before they became obsolete. Teslas feel very similar to that high you get from having the latest phone. I own a 2017 model S and it seems every 6 months my car becomes more legacy. First it was all the packages (Cold weather, premium upgrades, etc) becoming standard when you had to pay for the packages. Then it was HW 3.0 & MCU 2 for advanced screen graphics and playing Netflix. Also capability for Full Self driving. Then it was the raven air suspension. Then it was model 3 and model Ys getting external pedestrian speakers that could play music. Then it was a heat pump. Then it was being to roll your windows up and down through the phone app. Then it was faster super charging. Then it was new, fun video games. Then it was a rectangular screen that can play witcher and tilt (eventually) Then it was more battery range. ...and so on. That's all I could list off my memory but I bet you I missed 50% of the updates. The moment you buy a Tesla, it'll be out of date in a couple of months. It is what it is.

jeffwilcox 5y ago
Came here to look for this list ;-) Don't get me started on my new Model Y that doesn't have the game controller-only games... or my Model S that doesn't let me actually play games in the back. Wait, it's a car, I'll be fine.

01100011 5y ago

I leased my Bolt. I figured I would buy it out when the lease expires unless current EVs are competitive, but now, I don't know, maybe I'll just keep leasing. EVs feel less like buying a car and more like buying a really expensive PC in that the minute you buy it, it already seems somewhat outdated. Sure, you can get that feeling with an IC car, but IME the updates are less frequent and the technology is more mature. My '17 Subaru feels a bit dated, but that's nothing I couldn't fix with a simple head unit upgrade.

laurent92 5y ago
When leasing, do you have to be extra-careful with not dirtying/brushing/hitting the exterior or interior? The whole experience of owning is having much less to worry about being “told off by the parents” when you give it back.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Wear and tear is expected. If you get in an accident, you have it repaired just like you would if you owned it. If you beat it to hell then you can expect an adjustment to the value, just as if you tried to sell your own car after treating it that way. As long as it doesn't have collision damage, tires that are bald to unsafe levels, or a trashed interior, the guy at the dealer you hand the keys to is unlikely to care (it's not like the dealer owns it). They're just going to ship it off to auction and the detailers will clean it up and resell it.
ec109685 5y ago
Leasing unless the manufacturer is doing something weird to hit quotas is equivalent to financing the car for 3 years and then selling it, so there aren’t big financial advantages one way or another, with financing giving you more flexibility.
- rootusrootus 5y ago
  Definitely you get more flexibility when financing, which is good if you like to keep cars a long time, or a short time. The latter being a surprisingly common situation. Some people figure a lease is a good way to have new cars pretty often, but don't realize that 3 years is still a fairly long time if you are a car spaz. It's nice, though, to pre-negotiate the end of the ownership experience, selling cars to private individuals is frequently a great big hassle and trading in is a great way to spend several thousand extra dollars just to avoid that hassle.

jeffwilcox 5y ago

It's almost best to disconnect from the forums and fans after taking delivery. The ordering, waiting, and delivery process really do require us all to connect - if only for mutual support through frustration - There is an aspect of "who cares" when I hear about slightly different door panels, or heated windshield wipers, or a manufacturing improvement for newer cars being built. Yet it's easy to get lost in the "OMG THE NEW HEADLIGHTS MY CAR IS RUBBISH" world, too. Enjoy any EV, when you're ready, it'll be a great car for many years.

Gareth321 5y ago

I'm right there with you. The rate of improvement is much higher for EVs right now than ICE, and it means they [should] lose relative value much faster (covid issues aside). I solved this by simply identifying the red lines for me. What can I absolutely not live without for any reason? If I can get those and EV improvements, then I'm in. Sadly EVs cannot give me my hard red line requirement yet: range. My cheap Honda Civic gets me 700km+ on the motorway on a single tank, and it doesn't have optimal charging ranges, nor does it lose a significant amount of range in the cold. I'm waiting for at least 1,000km WLTP range in something like a Model Y before migrating. At current pace this looks to be some time in the next five years.

hedora 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what’s your use case for such a high range? 1,000km is 8-10 hours of uninterrupted driving. You can already go (almost) everywhere in the US with an EV, and the US is more spread out than, say, Europe. Is this range requirement for the Australian outback or something?
- SOLAR_FIELDS 5y ago
  If you live in Texas that level of range is a pretty hard requirement. Going outside of Houston or the 35 arterial of DFW/Austin/San Antonio still requires that level of range. The rural fast charging infra is coming along, but still not where it needs to be to comfortably drive an EV to a lot of Texas without some careful planning.
- Gareth321 5y ago
  I live in Denmark where it's prohibitively expensive to own two cars. This is common for most of Europe. So our one car needs to handle not just daily commuting (where an EVs excel), but also the longer trips we regularly take to other countries. These are easily 1,000+km and an EV would add 2-3+ hours to the already long trip. EVs make a lot more sense when a family can own 2-3 cars and they can rotate their commute car with their road trip car.

mdasen 5y ago

The same reason you get a smartphone or laptop. There's always a better one coming, but you need it. Really, articles hype up changes that tend to be marginal. I'm not saying that Tesla isn't doing good work or that companies don't improve products. But most of the time, there aren't really big improvements. Cars from a decade ago are fine. Sure, I wish I had CarPlay, but it's fine and there's always something new coming. At some point in your life, you either learn to live with being slightly outdated or you spend a lot of money. Frankly, some of it is perception. You've talked about the 2021 Hyundai Tucson and I'm not sure if you mean the 2022 model-year Tucson. The 2021 model didn't have a facelift and the 2022 model is actually all new - more all-new than the Model Y update. It's half-a-foot longer, has an additional 6 cubic feet of passenger space, 8 more cubic feet of cargo space, 3.5 more inches of rear-seat legroom. It has a new engine offering 23 more horsepower (14% more). Hybrid and plug-in-hybrid versions are available. Now, you might not care about any of those changes, but it definitely wasn't a facelift. What does the new Model Y offer? Potentially 16% increased range, but Tesla might just convert that into cost savings for them. Right now, Tesla is reliant on government subsidies for its profits and with those potentially dwindling over time, they might be looking to cut costs more than offer better range. Will the chassis be better? Maybe, but it's also possible that the first few quarters (or years) could have quality issues. Cutting edge stuff can end up cutting you. Stuff sounds impressive and sometimes hits the market as "meh". I mean, Mazda's Skyactiv was supposed to be revolutionary. Mazda hasn't been making bad cars, but it's definitely "meh". Fuel economy numbers are worse than most competitors now and power isn't amazing either. A Mazda 3 ends up way behind a Honda Civic for fuel economy and on-par for power. All that cleaner-burning, high-compressions stuff kinda leading to nothing. Mazda says that their Skyactiv-Body is 8% lighter and 30% more rigid, but it doesn't seem to be anything to write home about. If Tesla introduces a new Model Y with those new batteries, it seems likely that the new models will have a similar range, with some lowered costs for Tesla. Maybe 5% better range and 10% cost savings for Tesla (I'd love to be proven wrong on this). Likewise, the chassis is probably going to be a marginal improvement, but the big thing is likely to be that Tesla has never figured out quality control on their assembly and so they're trying to get rid of that - and pass it off as an amazing feature. And I'm not trying to say that I don't like progress and that marginal progress isn't important. Marginal progress adds up over time. I'm just saying that the new Model Y probably won't be as much of an upgrade as it feels right now. I showed that the Tucson had a lot of new stuff, but to you it's just a facelift. If the new Model Y comes out looking exactly the same with the same range, but there might be some chassis difference you can't see (and realistically probably can't feel), are you going to think that's a major upgrade because Tesla altered its manufacturing in a way that doesn't impact your experience of the product? No, that wouldn't feel like an upgrade at all. Again, I like that Tesla is pushing things forward and that's important, but car companies are always coming out with "all new" stuff that often doesn't feel like a big upgrade when you actually get your hands on the product. The number of times that I've heard about chassis getting more rigid is just incredible. And, to be fair, cars are much better, but if you get a new car every decade or so and ignore the hype train, you're fine. If you get a new smartphone every 2 or 3 years, you're fine. But they're always looking to talk up how this year's version is revolutionary! Those things rarely happen. If you wanted a Tesla, the Model 3/Y was revolutionary insofar as they had an affordable price point. It seems unlikely that we're going to see a lot more revolutionary stuff. That's not to say Teslas are bad. It's just that "3% more range" or "maybe better cornering if you're going 120MPH...except that's illegal" aren't really revolutionary. If there's another Tesla revolution to happen, it's going to be a $20,000-25,000 mass-market car (that isn't nearly as nice as the Model 3). But look at the Model S. Has there been revolutions there? To me, this article sounds like the type of thing I read about Apple sourcing displays from new companies. It's more about business sense for Apple than it really is about the product in my hand. The new chassis seems like an attempt to overcome Tesla's quality problems (which also seem to get more complaints on the Model Y). The new battery packs seem like a modest improvement over the old ones (Tesla is claiming 16%) which might show up in improved range, but might end up more in cost savings. There's always something new. Most of the time it's a marginal improvement. Even big changes can feel like just a facelift if you don't get hyped for them.

dehrmann 5y ago

> As someone who just recently got a model Y, seeing reports like this just frustrate me. I'm not sure if you'd actually notice the difference, and it's Tesla, so you'd want to give them a few years to work out the kinks.

rad_gruchalski 5y ago

> but when is it a good time to buy an EV? As someone who just recently got a model Y, seeing reports like this just frustrate me I was listening to Chris Harris a little while ago. He made a great point that over the next few years the cars will go through a similar transition loop as a cell phone went in last 10 years. Every six months your best of breed car will feel old. I’m dreading going electric, it just doesn’t amuse me at all but if I have to, not before 2025 for sure.