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Nicely said. I've been thinking about this a lot too--how contextual advice is. Even if you and your father had a wonderful, sterling relationship, it would be

Nicely said. I've been thinking about this a lot too--how contextual advice is. Even if you and your father had a wonderful, sterling relationship, it would be odd if you spent the majority of your time with him when you were 22. I hope I'm not making too many assumptions here, but many (most?) 22-year-olds are probably {working, in college, in the military, doing something where family is not the main priority}. That's fine and expected, and I would even go so far as to say that's optimal. 22 is when you should be making friends, studying, working, doing [harmless] stupid things that get you in trouble, etc. Spending time with your family on weekends or holiday--and certainly catching up with them over the phone if you live far away--is excellent, but different parts of your life, different seasons of your life, call for different things. As you get older, you should "come home", so to speak. I don't mean literally, although that would be perfectly all right, but metaphorically--probably more check-ins with your family, more holidays with them, etc. But if you're 22 and spending New Years Eve with your best friends, I think that is more than acceptable.

pdimitar 5y ago
Yeah. Me and my brother were busting our arses off working back then, and father felt horribly about it because he left us nothing and he stopped working due to being way too ill. Life zooms by way too fast in such conditions and there's not much we can do about it.
- BigHatLogan 5y ago
  Yeah, that is indeed a complicated situation. I'm glad you and your brother navigated through it, and that it seems you have reconciled some of your feelings towards him. Life really does zoom past--"Time just gets away from us."
marttt 5y ago
Agreed. I suppose someone losing his dad at 22 is, by and large, an anomaly in the welfare society. My dad died when I was 26. We had a really good, warm relationship, though: driving in his car, sitting side by side, not talking a single word for 30-45 minutes, and both still feeling good. (Occasionally, though, in the end, he would ask something like "So, ugh, have you considered who to become when you're an adult?" -- to which I replied, "Uh, I guess I have, yeah." In a few still seconds, he'd say, "Yeah. Good idea to think about that." Disclaimer: national stereotype of us, Estonian men, is that we speak around 6 sentences a year -- but even at that time, as a teenager, I liked this blissful silence a lot.) Then again, losing dad at a young age has surely influenced my own parenting. Basically, I gave up all my career ambitions just to be with the kids when they were (are) preschoolers. Prior to his death, work stuff was really going uphill for the 20-something me; now, I admit really struggling to get back on track again (I may have missed the career train for good). I have also noticed an internal mantra or meme: I need to raise my kids so they could cope (psychologically and in terms of hands-on survival skills) if one of their parents, or both of their parents, should die unexpectedly. To the previous poster and GP: thanks a lot for sharing your experiences and thoughts. I sometimes think that maybe me and my dad had no principal misunderstandings simply because he died too early for these to develop.
- BigHatLogan 5y ago
  Thanks for the reply, and for sharing your story. I smiled at the description of Estonian men--I know a few Eastern Europeans myself (I think Estonia falls under Eastern Europe?), and your description is completely accurate. I'm glad you and your father had a warm relationship. I have a question for you: Do you wish you had stayed on the career train? Maybe not completely, but at least not getting off of it entirely? I am on the career train right now (not married, no children) but am wondering if it is "best" to leave if/when I start a family. Part of me feels like that would be nice, but the other part of me worries about providing materially for my [future] family, including my parents, who are not so well off financially too. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this, whether you have any regrets over it.
  - Aeolun 5y ago
    Based on my own experience, there is no need to do so. I have just set hard limits on what can be expected of me (e.g no work after 6), and by all appearances my boss is still very happy with my work (and corresponding promotions).
    - BigHatLogan 5y ago
      That makes sense. Are you at all concerned about not getting promotions as quickly in the future, or being more easily replaceable, etc.? I guess I'm under the "up or out" mindset, especially in tech with the ageism factor. I would love to do exactly what I'm doing right now for the next 30 years, but I don't know if that's possible--that mindset keeps me on the train, so to speak.
      - Aeolun 5y ago
        Not really. It probably depends on the organisation you are working for, but where I’m at now I still feel valued. Of course I’ll get less promotions, but that’s mostly because I reached the highest IC level now (as far as I’m aware). I can’t tell you how to do that though. For me I used to do a lot of feature delivery, but now I’m more focused on team wide improvements (pipeline, CI/CD, guidelines, tooling). I’ve taken myself off the critical path, but make everyone’s life better (or aim to, anyway).
asiachick 5y ago
This seems like a very USA perspective. Maybe less so for men but in Japan, plenty of 20 something women consider their mom their best friend and they hang out. I'm just guessing there are other cultures with similar practices. In the USA or a least in US media, pretty much all movies with teens/young adults emphasize getting out on your own as soon as possible. I don't think that's a universal. In fact, while this is probably NOT true, if it was I wouldn't be surprised, and "that" would be that it's possible that marketing companies pushed this narrative through the media, like they did with diamond rings and cigarettes, since going single means you need more stuff. More places to live (1 person instead of 1 per family), more things you'd normally be able to share (pretty much everything in your house except toothbrushes and clothing), need your own car, etc...
- fxtentacle 5y ago
  I thought the same thing. Some of my Asian friends were still living with their parents at 25 years old and apparently enjoying it. I've seen it in Vietnam, Taiwan, and Singapore, so it appears pretty widespread. I know at least one guy who easily could have purchased his own apartment in Singapore. But he very much enjoyed having relatives visit with their small kids, as they would cheer up everyone by being silly. So he stayed at his parents place until he got married and started making kids of his own. And yes, he probably saved lots of money that way, too. But I'm sure he didn't need to. He was the CEO of a well funded startup with a $50mio+ exit. Also, he sometimes invited friends (like me) and coworkers to his parents place and nobody thought that was weird. It really is a US / western cultural difference.
  - BigHatLogan 5y ago
    Wow! Thanks for sharing--that really does strike me as unusual, coming from my US perspective. How did your friend date while living at home? I'm genuinely curious--having a hard time understanding how this would work (but I also have overbearing parents...).
    - fxtentacle 5y ago
      There's cheap cafes everywhere, so going on a date is easy. For feeling each other up, you can go to a karaoke place, they'll have semi public rooms. For more, there's hotels you can rent by the hour, usually within walking distance of clubs and karaoke bars. Plus all of these countries are warm enough that you can also just cuddle in a park, at the beach, or in the rainforest.

pdimitar 5y ago

Yeah. Me and my brother were busting our arses off working back then, and father felt horribly about it because he left us nothing and he stopped working due to being way too ill. Life zooms by way too fast in such conditions and there's not much we can do about it.

BigHatLogan 5y ago
Yeah, that is indeed a complicated situation. I'm glad you and your brother navigated through it, and that it seems you have reconciled some of your feelings towards him. Life really does zoom past--"Time just gets away from us."

marttt 5y ago

Agreed. I suppose someone losing his dad at 22 is, by and large, an anomaly in the welfare society. My dad died when I was 26. We had a really good, warm relationship, though: driving in his car, sitting side by side, not talking a single word for 30-45 minutes, and both still feeling good. (Occasionally, though, in the end, he would ask something like "So, ugh, have you considered who to become when you're an adult?" -- to which I replied, "Uh, I guess I have, yeah." In a few still seconds, he'd say, "Yeah. Good idea to think about that." Disclaimer: national stereotype of us, Estonian men, is that we speak around 6 sentences a year -- but even at that time, as a teenager, I liked this blissful silence a lot.) Then again, losing dad at a young age has surely influenced my own parenting. Basically, I gave up all my career ambitions just to be with the kids when they were (are) preschoolers. Prior to his death, work stuff was really going uphill for the 20-something me; now, I admit really struggling to get back on track again (I may have missed the career train for good). I have also noticed an internal mantra or meme: I need to raise my kids so they could cope (psychologically and in terms of hands-on survival skills) if one of their parents, or both of their parents, should die unexpectedly. To the previous poster and GP: thanks a lot for sharing your experiences and thoughts. I sometimes think that maybe me and my dad had no principal misunderstandings simply because he died too early for these to develop.

BigHatLogan 5y ago
Thanks for the reply, and for sharing your story. I smiled at the description of Estonian men--I know a few Eastern Europeans myself (I think Estonia falls under Eastern Europe?), and your description is completely accurate. I'm glad you and your father had a warm relationship. I have a question for you: Do you wish you had stayed on the career train? Maybe not completely, but at least not getting off of it entirely? I am on the career train right now (not married, no children) but am wondering if it is "best" to leave if/when I start a family. Part of me feels like that would be nice, but the other part of me worries about providing materially for my [future] family, including my parents, who are not so well off financially too. So I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this, whether you have any regrets over it.
- Aeolun 5y ago
  Based on my own experience, there is no need to do so. I have just set hard limits on what can be expected of me (e.g no work after 6), and by all appearances my boss is still very happy with my work (and corresponding promotions).
  - BigHatLogan 5y ago
    That makes sense. Are you at all concerned about not getting promotions as quickly in the future, or being more easily replaceable, etc.? I guess I'm under the "up or out" mindset, especially in tech with the ageism factor. I would love to do exactly what I'm doing right now for the next 30 years, but I don't know if that's possible--that mindset keeps me on the train, so to speak.
    - Aeolun 5y ago
      Not really. It probably depends on the organisation you are working for, but where I’m at now I still feel valued. Of course I’ll get less promotions, but that’s mostly because I reached the highest IC level now (as far as I’m aware). I can’t tell you how to do that though. For me I used to do a lot of feature delivery, but now I’m more focused on team wide improvements (pipeline, CI/CD, guidelines, tooling). I’ve taken myself off the critical path, but make everyone’s life better (or aim to, anyway).

asiachick 5y ago

This seems like a very USA perspective. Maybe less so for men but in Japan, plenty of 20 something women consider their mom their best friend and they hang out. I'm just guessing there are other cultures with similar practices. In the USA or a least in US media, pretty much all movies with teens/young adults emphasize getting out on your own as soon as possible. I don't think that's a universal. In fact, while this is probably NOT true, if it was I wouldn't be surprised, and "that" would be that it's possible that marketing companies pushed this narrative through the media, like they did with diamond rings and cigarettes, since going single means you need more stuff. More places to live (1 person instead of 1 per family), more things you'd normally be able to share (pretty much everything in your house except toothbrushes and clothing), need your own car, etc...

fxtentacle 5y ago
I thought the same thing. Some of my Asian friends were still living with their parents at 25 years old and apparently enjoying it. I've seen it in Vietnam, Taiwan, and Singapore, so it appears pretty widespread. I know at least one guy who easily could have purchased his own apartment in Singapore. But he very much enjoyed having relatives visit with their small kids, as they would cheer up everyone by being silly. So he stayed at his parents place until he got married and started making kids of his own. And yes, he probably saved lots of money that way, too. But I'm sure he didn't need to. He was the CEO of a well funded startup with a $50mio+ exit. Also, he sometimes invited friends (like me) and coworkers to his parents place and nobody thought that was weird. It really is a US / western cultural difference.
- BigHatLogan 5y ago
  Wow! Thanks for sharing--that really does strike me as unusual, coming from my US perspective. How did your friend date while living at home? I'm genuinely curious--having a hard time understanding how this would work (but I also have overbearing parents...).
  - fxtentacle 5y ago
    There's cheap cafes everywhere, so going on a date is easy. For feeling each other up, you can go to a karaoke place, they'll have semi public rooms. For more, there's hotels you can rent by the hour, usually within walking distance of clubs and karaoke bars. Plus all of these countries are warm enough that you can also just cuddle in a park, at the beach, or in the rainforest.