4 ms·

What happened to Intel being a terrible place to work and having lost all the good engineers?

by foobarian 5y ago

bengale 5y ago
I would assume an absolute buttload of money.
santoshalper 5y ago
Probably a cement mixer full of $100 bills being delivered directly to his house. That's my guess at least.
- markvdb 5y ago
  A wheelbarrow full of cement mixed with the highest worth coins used to be a popular wedding day present over here.
  - kevinmchugh 5y ago
    The person who gifts a sledgehammer would be popular, I imagine
  - santoshalper 5y ago
    Where is "over here"? That seems like an awkward way to give a gift.
tluyben2 5y ago
A lot of terrible places to work are not terrible for the most wanted staff.
- analognoise 5y ago
  Holy shit, is this true or what? Edit: Sorry, low value comment. Seeing it written out, it just really struck me.
  - acdha 5y ago
    Think about what makes places terrible: is it that they’re misery-factories where everyone is being tased for not completing TPS reports fast enough or is it that the rules are being applied unevenly or aren’t being set reasonably for everyone? From the perspective of the people in the other side in that latter case everything is fine and everyone else are just whining. You can especially see this in places where status is uneven (e.g. the guys who went to the right schools call the shots) or where there’s some kind of hazing tradition (e.g. medicine or law have brutal startup loads for early career people but are resistant to change because all of the senior people have, by definition, been the ones who were able to deal with it and changes won’t benefit them).
pavlov 5y ago
Money? Intel's stock is stuck where it was four years ago. The company trades at a very low P/E of 10. A big stock grant today can turn into a tremendous windfall over the next years if they manage to turn things around.
- foobarian 5y ago
  Well, I would think he was already paid pretty handsomely at Apple, and a technical person like this doesn't strike me as someone who would go chasing dollars over interesting work especially if they already have enough. The thing about Intel is, there has been a lot of bad press lately, specifically about attrition of good staff; so I am puzzled why a star would enjoy working with who's left. Maybe they have personal connections and know better, or are going to bring friends over. I feel bad being so negative about Intel. I know if I was there and reading commentary like this I would be disappointed. So I hope this is all just overblown by the media and I apologize for buying it.
  - solarkraft 5y ago
    Maybe it's a part of a bigger plan to win people back. Who knows, he may be involved in that.
  - pavlov 5y ago
    A lot of Silicon Valley engineers are extremely focused on money as a status indicator, despite the rhetoric about passion, changing the world, etc. But he's also expanding his responsibilities, going from just Mac SoC design to being in charge of Intel's entire division.
  - compiler-guy 5y ago
    He is in a position to build his own staff and run his own show, build his own culture and just generally control his own destiny in a way that line engineers are not. He likely had the power to negotiate all kinds of working conditions, budgets and general other power before he signed on the dotted line. A high-level, high-demand executive has a very different hiring experience than the average engineer.
ryan93 5y ago
They made 20 billion in profit last year. They could DOUBLE the salaries of every important engineer without breaking a sweat. They are running by MBAs so they will do the bare minimum.
- HatchedLake721 5y ago
  And how would that change anything? More money not gonna solve it. If someone thinks it’s a terrible place to work at, more money won’t make it “unterrible”.
  - spacedcowboy 5y ago
    shrug depends. I've been working at Apple for the last 17 years. At my last perf-review (which went very well), my boss was talking about promotion and where I wanted to go in my career: ICT6 (really hard to get, ICT5->ICT6 is based more on opportunity becoming available rather than ability IMHO) or Management. ICT6 comes with a $200k or so pay rise, a significant fraction of my comp, so it's a big jump. My answer was simple enough: I plan to retire within the next 5 years (I'm 52 now); I'll go whichever path will make the most money before I retire. I'm willing to put up with a non-ideal work environment for a while in order to reap more financial rewards that might let me retire even earlier. (I have an excellent working relationship with my boss, who is an adult and acts like one; we can talk openly and honestly about these things) I make a lot of money at Apple, and I like working here, but it's still work and I work to live, not the other way around. I want to be able to enjoy the fruits of my labour while I'm still young enough to appreciate it, so my drive is simply money. It's evolved over time, and certainly when younger, "cool project" was more of a drive, but now that I'm approaching end-game ... things change.
  - ryan93 5y ago
    It might help prevent top physicists and EE students from taking stupid finance and Facebook jobs.
nicoburns 5y ago
They appointed one of those engineers they lost as CEO last year.
ksec 5y ago
That was before the change of management? BK has been Intel CEO for 5 years. Apple also had their fair share of Silicon Engineers leaving in the past 3 years. What happened to Apple being the best place to work?
- ur-whale 5y ago
  > What happened to Apple being the best place to work? Was it? Ever?
  - tombert 5y ago
    Obviously money isn't everything, and I think Facebook has dethroned it, but for quite awhile Apple paid the highest salaries in the industry; at least that was the case for me when I worked there. It's much tougher to measure other metrics, as how much you value autonomy and "not spending your entire day triaging emails" is going to be a lot more subjective.
outside1234 5y ago
$100M over 4 years changes people's perceptions

What happened to Intel being a terrible place to work and having lost all the good engineers?

bengale 5y ago

I would assume an absolute buttload of money.

santoshalper 5y ago

Probably a cement mixer full of $100 bills being delivered directly to his house. That's my guess at least.

markvdb 5y ago
A wheelbarrow full of cement mixed with the highest worth coins used to be a popular wedding day present over here.
- kevinmchugh 5y ago
  The person who gifts a sledgehammer would be popular, I imagine
- santoshalper 5y ago
  Where is "over here"? That seems like an awkward way to give a gift.

tluyben2 5y ago

A lot of terrible places to work are not terrible for the most wanted staff.

analognoise 5y ago
Holy shit, is this true or what? Edit: Sorry, low value comment. Seeing it written out, it just really struck me.
- acdha 5y ago
  Think about what makes places terrible: is it that they’re misery-factories where everyone is being tased for not completing TPS reports fast enough or is it that the rules are being applied unevenly or aren’t being set reasonably for everyone? From the perspective of the people in the other side in that latter case everything is fine and everyone else are just whining. You can especially see this in places where status is uneven (e.g. the guys who went to the right schools call the shots) or where there’s some kind of hazing tradition (e.g. medicine or law have brutal startup loads for early career people but are resistant to change because all of the senior people have, by definition, been the ones who were able to deal with it and changes won’t benefit them).

pavlov 5y ago

Money? Intel's stock is stuck where it was four years ago. The company trades at a very low P/E of 10. A big stock grant today can turn into a tremendous windfall over the next years if they manage to turn things around.

foobarian 5y ago
Well, I would think he was already paid pretty handsomely at Apple, and a technical person like this doesn't strike me as someone who would go chasing dollars over interesting work especially if they already have enough. The thing about Intel is, there has been a lot of bad press lately, specifically about attrition of good staff; so I am puzzled why a star would enjoy working with who's left. Maybe they have personal connections and know better, or are going to bring friends over. I feel bad being so negative about Intel. I know if I was there and reading commentary like this I would be disappointed. So I hope this is all just overblown by the media and I apologize for buying it.
- solarkraft 5y ago
  Maybe it's a part of a bigger plan to win people back. Who knows, he may be involved in that.
- pavlov 5y ago
  A lot of Silicon Valley engineers are extremely focused on money as a status indicator, despite the rhetoric about passion, changing the world, etc. But he's also expanding his responsibilities, going from just Mac SoC design to being in charge of Intel's entire division.
- compiler-guy 5y ago
  He is in a position to build his own staff and run his own show, build his own culture and just generally control his own destiny in a way that line engineers are not. He likely had the power to negotiate all kinds of working conditions, budgets and general other power before he signed on the dotted line. A high-level, high-demand executive has a very different hiring experience than the average engineer.

ryan93 5y ago

They made 20 billion in profit last year. They could DOUBLE the salaries of every important engineer without breaking a sweat. They are running by MBAs so they will do the bare minimum.

HatchedLake721 5y ago
And how would that change anything? More money not gonna solve it. If someone thinks it’s a terrible place to work at, more money won’t make it “unterrible”.
- spacedcowboy 5y ago
  shrug depends. I've been working at Apple for the last 17 years. At my last perf-review (which went very well), my boss was talking about promotion and where I wanted to go in my career: ICT6 (really hard to get, ICT5->ICT6 is based more on opportunity becoming available rather than ability IMHO) or Management. ICT6 comes with a $200k or so pay rise, a significant fraction of my comp, so it's a big jump. My answer was simple enough: I plan to retire within the next 5 years (I'm 52 now); I'll go whichever path will make the most money before I retire. I'm willing to put up with a non-ideal work environment for a while in order to reap more financial rewards that might let me retire even earlier. (I have an excellent working relationship with my boss, who is an adult and acts like one; we can talk openly and honestly about these things) I make a lot of money at Apple, and I like working here, but it's still work and I work to live, not the other way around. I want to be able to enjoy the fruits of my labour while I'm still young enough to appreciate it, so my drive is simply money. It's evolved over time, and certainly when younger, "cool project" was more of a drive, but now that I'm approaching end-game ... things change.
- ryan93 5y ago
  It might help prevent top physicists and EE students from taking stupid finance and Facebook jobs.

nicoburns 5y ago

They appointed one of those engineers they lost as CEO last year.

ksec 5y ago

That was before the change of management? BK has been Intel CEO for 5 years. Apple also had their fair share of Silicon Engineers leaving in the past 3 years. What happened to Apple being the best place to work?

ur-whale 5y ago
> What happened to Apple being the best place to work? Was it? Ever?
- tombert 5y ago
  Obviously money isn't everything, and I think Facebook has dethroned it, but for quite awhile Apple paid the highest salaries in the industry; at least that was the case for me when I worked there. It's much tougher to measure other metrics, as how much you value autonomy and "not spending your entire day triaging emails" is going to be a lot more subjective.

outside1234 5y ago

$100M over 4 years changes people's perceptions