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Key M1 Mac Engineer Departs Apple for Intel
- HatchedLake721 5y agoIntel to push into energy efficient ARM market?
- rwaksmunski 5y agoMore like RISC V, they failed to acquire SiFive a while back.
- Symmetry 5y agoMore like Intel to push more smarts into their cache hierarchy like Apple did, I would guess.
- solarkraft 5y agoMy impression (from what I heard/read without deeper understanding) is that this is harder with x86 than with ARM. But perhaps he deems it viable.
- josefrichter 5y agoGood for us, consumers, I guess.
- abdusco 5y agoImagine being so good in your field, both Apple and Intel get in a bidding fight over you. Good for him.
- outside1234 5y agoI think this is notable in this field only because of how consolidated the power is - this happens all of the time in software engineering.
- BugsJustFindMe 5y agoMy question is how much did Intel decide to pay him that Apple, with all the money in the world sitting around in offshore accounts not helping anyone, decided it wasn't worth keeping him around for their most important hardware project in a decade.
- buran77 5y agoCompanies rarely have an interest to get in a bidding war because the best outcome is that you pay a lot to hang on to that person for a little while longer. People at that level more often leave because their job was done and they want new, interesting projects, money alone won't cut it. The worst outcome is that it incentivizes more employees to try the same approach. The company either opens the spending floodgates, or rejects a lot of them thus losing people either to the competition or to demotivation. When it's one person they probably rely on the fact that the team and structure in place can take a loss. When it's a mass departure they will give bonuses as they have done recently with the possible departures to Meta.
- ur-whale 5y ago> decided it wasn't worth keeping him He might: - already be rich enough to not care at all about making more - disagree with his emplyer's ethos - have had an asshole for a boss. These things happen.
- bombcar 5y agoOr the "work is done" at Apple and he sees a chance to "do it again" for Intel. Often solving the same problem twice is fun, like replaying a game.
- buran77 5y agoThere's the saying to "quit while you're at the top". He has a massive victory with M1. Staying in place the best outcome in the future is to deliver incremental improvements. Going to the competition and helping them bootstrap another potentially hugely successful chip is certainly far more attractive. A new challenge is probably worth more than money alone.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- foobarian 5y agoWhat happened to Intel being a terrible place to work and having lost all the good engineers?
- bengale 5y agoI would assume an absolute buttload of money.
- santoshalper 5y agoProbably a cement mixer full of $100 bills being delivered directly to his house. That's my guess at least.
- markvdb 5y agoA wheelbarrow full of cement mixed with the highest worth coins used to be a popular wedding day present over here.
- kevinmchugh 5y agoThe person who gifts a sledgehammer would be popular, I imagine
- santoshalper 5y agoWhere is "over here"? That seems like an awkward way to give a gift.
- tluyben2 5y agoA lot of terrible places to work are not terrible for the most wanted staff.
- analognoise 5y agoHoly shit, is this true or what? Edit: Sorry, low value comment. Seeing it written out, it just really struck me.
- pavlov 5y ago> "Wilcox spent eight years working at Apple, and as of this week, he is the Design Engineering Group CTO at Intel. Wilcox says that he will be responsible for the architecture of all SoCs for all Intel client segments. Prior to working for Apple, Wilcox was at Intel where he served as a principal engineer on PC chipsets, and prior to that, he worked at Magnum Semiconductor and Nvidia." This seems like a meaningful (re-)hire for Intel. They're obviously weak in SoCs. The Atom was an expensive flop, AFAICT.
- masklinn 5y agoThough it seems somewhat odd that a "key M1 engineer" would be from Intel rather than what's considered major Apple purchases in the design space (PA Semi and Intrisity, possibly Passif and the parts of Dialog purchased as well).
- pavlov 5y agoApple was Intel's flagship customer for laptop PC chips. It doesn't seem surprising that Apple would hire someone from Intel's PC chipset design to lead their own effort to replace it.
- masklinn 5y ago> Apple was Intel's flagship customer for laptop PC chips. It doesn't seem surprising that Apple would hire someone from Intel's PC chipset design to lead their own effort to replace it. You've magnificently missed the point of my comment. And then, of course, for most of the relationship Apple was quite unhappy with what Intel provided, ultimately deciding to take the matter into their own hands.
- tcmart14 5y agoI think your last point is true, but not 100%. Apple for sure was unhappy with Intel. But I also think bringing the computer more in line with their line up of phones and iPads also plays a role that it divorced from Intel. Apple, since the first iPhone, has been on a slow march to convergence. Everything on Arm is a major step towards convergence.
- elbasti 5y agoMore proof that California not allowing non-competes is a key driver of innovation.
- FroshKiller 5y agoIt won't be proof until Intel delivers.
- coldtea 5y agoParent said competition. This is competition. Whether Intel's SoC chips will end up being good is orthogonal. Competition is not about a party making better stuff than another, it's about been given the chance to work to make it (and not have BS inpediments, like implicit or explicit aggrements to never cross-hire between two companies).
- usefulcat 5y ago"Prior to working for Apple, Wilcox was at Intel where he served as a principal engineer on PC chipsets ..."
- tcmart14 5y agoThat explains it. I was wondering, isn't this going to lead to a lot of courtroom time? I didn't realize California killed non-compete clauses, thanks!
- StringyBob 5y agoThe lead architect of every main Apple CPU from A7 to the M1Max is still going through a court case, being sued because of a non-compete for trying to do a startup https://www.theregister.com/2019/12/09/apple_nuvia_ceo_suit/ https://www.theregister.com/2019/12/09/apple_nuvia_ceo_suit/
- siva7 5y ago> Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger in October said that he hopes to win back Apple's business in the future by creating "a better chip" than Apple can make. Am i the only one who lacks the fantasy that this could become true?
- outside1234 5y agoNo - you aren't missing anything. Apple is a vertically integrated company now and they are never going back. Intel also has little shot of competing with Apple on a talent perspective. They won here, but I suspect Apple has a plan B for who they are going to poach to replace Wilcox, and that person is probably better.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> Apple is a vertically integrated company now and they are never going back The integration is delivering dividends. Apple has shown itself to be nimble. If Intel brings a better chip to the table, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed tack once again.
- AnthonyMouse 5y agoAlso remember that in this context Intel is the vertically integrated company. Apple is using TSMC's fabs. Right now that's a liability for the vertically integrated company because TSMC is ahead of Intel. Maybe it'll stay that way, maybe it won't. If Intel should retake the lead, Apple's choices will be to have a slower / less efficient processor or switch back to Intel. Even then they might not do it. Just being competitive isn't enough when they'd have to go back to paying Intel's margins. But if Intel pulls it off, it doesn't leave Apple with a lot of great choices.
- foobiekr 5y agoFrom a margin induced COGS perspective, Intel would be vendor silicon and the M1.* aren’t. This matters a lot. A lot of the swing of the pendulum in tech to de-vertical is still was collateral damage from the core competencies excuse in the 90s MBA era to basically chop companies up and make the financials artificially better for a time.
- efficax 5y agoMy experience is that managers at the director level contribute very little to the actual progress of a project but do get a lot of the glory if it succeeds. Maybe he can really drive innovation at Intel, or maybe the special sauce (namely, the engineers working under him) that worked at Apple just won't apply.
- Clubber 5y agoHe was actually an engineer apparently. I would say that differentiates him from a regular MBA suit. At the very least he can tell who is contributing on the team and what gaps need to be filled. Someone without experience would have to rely on someone else to determine this and who knows the qualifications of who he's relying on. Prior to working for Apple, Wilcox was at Intel where he served as a principal engineer on PC chipsets
- dlojudice 5y ago> My experience is that managers at the director level contribute very little to the actual progress of a project but do get a lot of the glory if it succeeds As already described in several books, the structure of the company or area matters immensely for innovation [1] [2]. In this regard, a director can have great influence on this structure by knowing which buttons to push. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Innovator%27s_Dilemma [2] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39863447-loonshots https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/39863447-loonshots
- Aperocky 5y agobuttons have to be there first though.
- StriverGuy 5y agoThis may be the case in very small companies. But in large orgs with complex projects and dozens/hundreds of stakeholders a great manager makes way more of an impact than any IC.
- cletus 5y agoSo we all know at this point how far Intel has fallen. From stories I've read, organizationally, Intel is a complete disaster. Fiefdoms, infighting, failure to deliver on 10nm, etc. Apple's star on the other hand is rising. The M1 is simply amazing. The article states this guy headed up the transition from Intel to M1. If so, he did an amazing job. Prior to the initial M1 release, I thought there'd be an annoying if not painful transition with lots of issues. To the contrary, it was smooth and a monumental success by any measure. So Apple would be paying through the nose to keep this guy. Intel, being in shambles, would have to pay bank to lure him away. I'd honestly expect his compensation at Intel to easily be $10m+ per year. Easily. Good for him. I really hope Intel recovers. Competition is good. > Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger in October said that he hopes to win back Apple's business in the future by creating "a better chip" than Apple can make. I don't know what to make of this statement. Apple wants to control every aspect of the product. They don't want to be dependent on Intel for chips. They initially moved to Intel because Intel at that stage was the clear leader and PowerPC just couldn't compete. Now Apple has its own silicon it's never giving that up so it's so strange for him to say this. EDIT: Corrected POWER to PowerPC.
- pjmlp 5y agoNeither cloud computing nor 80% of the desktop world run on M1, regardless how great they might be.
- pmarreck 5y agoImagine being a mercenary
- santoshalper 5y agoWhat's wrong with wanting to get paid? Do you think he should have been loyal to Apple?
- pmarreck 5y agoSpeaking as a startup guy, greater success (and happiness) comes from value generation than chasing bigger paychecks.
- jimbob45 5y agoThat logic may have made sense at the companies of old but companies today often present a Theseus' Ship dilemma for those working and wishing to jump ship. If all of the engineers you work with move over to Company B and the leadership of Company A is recycled, what is left at Company A for you to be loyal to other than the name?
- pmarreck 5y agoAn idea or mission, I guess? Maybe a reputation? Good point, though
- jeffrallen 5y agoI saw a brilliant guy recruited from Microsoft to Cisco in order to improve software development agility. Cisco's immune system neutralized and ejected him less than 2 years later. Same thing will happen to this poor dude, and Intel will continue as if nothing needs changing. There's a reason companies rarely reach 100 years old: they commit suicide.
- foobiekr 5y agoI’m curious what BU this was and what era. Companies like Cisco have a lot of history hiring outsiders and then disempowering them, but to balance that the ones they usually hire aren’t actually any good. There’s a lot of C-team Google hires in companies like Cisco that weren’t good to begin with.
- n7pdx 5y agoThis. Jim Keller was hired into an even higher position than this guy and he left in less than two years. Jim Keller was hired in to fix Intel's terrible design methodology and mindset and his own organization responded to reject him. It was actually quite amazing to see all the middle management stop their own internecine political warfare to respond to the Keller threat.
- netshade 5y agoI say this as someone who bought some INTC a while back expecting something like the following to play out. Last year's (and somewhat, continuing) chip shortage will combine with a view in the US that chip-availability is a national security issue. At some point, the US will make a strong case for in-nation chip fabrication as a national push, whether that be favorable business conditions for companies like Intel, or negative business conditions for foreign chip providers. Intel already sees this, and is playing to that future game; maybe not necessarily win Apple back ( as they say ), but to play to a future environment where many companies that aren't 3T mega corps to not have very many attractive domestic options other than Intel. Certainly I'm just playing a guessing game here, but that may be a potential future market they pitch to someone. "Apple will continue to play their own game, but here's a whole other market we see in the future".
- bcrl 5y agoIn order to regain Apple as a customer, Intel would actually need to commit to becoming a foundry. The catch is that Intel has tried to become a foundry several times before and failed, and there's no reason to believe this time will be any different. Intel survives off of fat cat margins on silicon by selling premium systems (especially in the server market), and the foundry business model is simply unable to provide those kinds of margins. What would impress me is if Intel starts poaching the key people from foundries that are needed to sell and support the business model internally.
- bigyellow 5y agoOkay? Like, why is this even a news story? Are Apple fanboys that desperate for any piece of information about their church they obsess even over individual hiring decisions? I mean, what a weird cult. People leave jobs all the time, especially in SV.
- nojito 5y agoAs long as johny srouji hasn't left it, Apple has nothing to worry about in the grand scheme of things with regards to their silicon work.