6 ms·

But, I didn't opt in for them to have this information about me to begin with.

maratbn 5y ago
theworknumber.com is yet another symptom of a much larger problem in that it is currently impractical for a regular person to enforce their rights via the court system. According to Peter Thiel “If you’re a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system...” https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-says-single-digit-millionaires-have-no-effective-access-to-our-legal-system/ https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-sa... So never-mind the non-millionaires. However it is really nice to see efforts by some regular people out there setting up services such as https://yourdigitalrights.org https://yourdigitalrights.org which is the service I just used to request my information from Equifax. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. I suppose if they do not respond in 45 days I'll file a complaint with the CA Attorney General to put yet another ping regarding Equifax on their radar. https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-busine... This shows that ultimately it is the regular people who drive progress, while the powerful and the wealthy just take credit for it. Ultimately United States will transition to European-style privacy laws when it comes to private information like income and these credit agencies will be abolished, but the way to get there is for the regular non-millionaire people to exercise whatever "rights" they kinda have to ultimately get these annoyances shut down.
vulcan01 5y ago
You don't need to. Your employer can give this info to whoever they want, and many give this data to Equifax or one of the other credit agencies. Also, you might give your bank employment details, and your bank will most likely send that info to a credit agency as well. There's not much of an escape.
- registeredcorn 5y ago
  What exactly do employers and banks stand to gain from sharing this information? Is it an exchange of information for money?
  - ralph84 5y ago
    For employers it offloads employment and salary verification. Instead of having to pay someone to answer verification calls all day they just upload the data to The Work Number and let them handle it.
    - divbzero 5y ago
      Are employers obligated to provide employment and salary verification?
      - ralph84 5y ago
        If they didn't their employees would be pretty pissed when they're unable to get a mortgage.
        yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        So go to HR and say "please sign this form that says I make $X" rather than preemptively broadcasting it?
        function_seven 5y ago
        Here's how I imagine this goes down: ADP Rep: "Hey, we have an exciting new feature to offer you! We partner with the worlds premiere credit and employment reporting agency to eliminate the hassle of salary and employment verification." VP, HR: "Go on..." ADP: "If you opt in to this innovative program, you'll never again have to respond to your employees' lenders or landlords. 97% of banks participate in this program. Instead of them asking their applicant—your employee—for paperwork that you have to deal with, they come direct to the source automatically. Again, this is at no additional cost. It's included with our Premium Payroll Plus offering. Interested?" HR: "Yeah, of course. One less thing I have to deal with" ADP: "And the best part is you'll then qualify for a substantial discount on our partner's Employment Data System. Rest easy with unlimited verification reports for all your prospective new hires" HR: "Anyone ever turn this down?" ADP: "Almost never."
- rhacker 5y ago
  Opt out of the system as soon as you possibly can. No mortgage, no bank, no address, no traditional job.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    Or, combine with other people to fight the ridiculous system? Even if you manage to pull off a life like this, you're limiting yourself significantly and leaving many people behind.
    - jokethrowaway 5y ago
      - colordrops 5y ago
        Where do you live now? Is it the least shitty place you've lived? And if not, where?
      - caddybox 5y ago
        > It's impossible, people are not rebelling after being forced in their homes for two years Did you ever get the news that the world went through a pandemic and millions of people lost their lives? We all hate being cooped up at home but what's the alternative? What did you expect the governments to do when they had no other solutions? When you talk about good countries, please remember that their citizens make them so. If you ever happen to move to one of these "good" countries, please remember that these societies are built upon a collective realization that rights come with a set of moral duties and obligations towards each other. By staying inside, we bought old, sick and immune-compromised people some time till a vaccine arrived.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    No mortgage and no job are achievable. You kind of need a bank, if you go around with cash the police or other criminals can just seize it. You also may want an address to live somewhere, I'd rather live in a house than in a car.
- nocardium 5y ago
  If I bundle my personal information together into an nft and then buy that nft, could I issue the credit agency with a DMCA takedown notice?
  - voltagedivider 5y ago
    Aren't NFTs essentially just file hashes/signatures that can be associated with a public/private key pair on a blockchain? If so, the link between the NFT and the key pair might be solid (as in cryptographically secure) but the link between the NFT and its "underlying asset" (which might be copyrightable) seems flimsy. That being said, since both NFT ownership and our legal systems rely on consensus and majority opinion, it's not hard to imagine a corrupt society in which the opinion of judges is disregarded in favor of blockchain consensus. Edit: you might be joking but it's an interesting question nonetheless because it highlights how various systems compete for legitimacy :)
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    Try it and let us know!
  - kevincox 5y ago
    IANAL The NFT would be completely irrelevant here. Basically I assume you are claiming copyright over your salary and personal information. Unfortunately you can't trademark facts, so this approach isn't viable.
geoduck14 5y ago
>But, I didn't opt in for them to have this information about me to begin with. Everyone is up in arms about Facebook and Google collecting our information... meanwhile credit bureaus are sitting in the shadows giggling to themselves
- caconym_ 5y ago
  The obsession with "big tech" as the biggest abuser of consumer privacy frustrates the hell out of me, and must be a real delight to credit bureaus, cell carriers, data brokers, fintech parasites, and all the rest of the slimy fuckers who do far worse things every day and aren't even on the public's radar.
  - randmeerkat 5y ago
    Reporting an employee’s salary vs Zuckerberg selling your political motivations to manipulate elections are two different ballparks. It’s not that people aren’t frustrated with other abusers of customer privacy, it’s just big tech is the best at it.
    - caconym_ 5y ago
      The Big Techs that run on ad revenue typically keep user data to themselves, and offer advertisers a platform for targeting ads without knowledge of individual users. There have been some scandals (CA is the one I always think of, and there are more) but typically selling de-anonymized user data is not the business model of these companies. That doesn't stop people from saying it is, but AFAIK they are largely incorrect. Contrast that with e.g. the somewhat recent revelations that cell carriers have been selling individuals' granular, de-anonymized location history data to, essentially, anybody willing to pay. From a privacy standpoint, which I think is the context here, I consider the latter sort of thing to be far worse.
    - fallingknife 5y ago
      They are 2 very different ballparks in that I would much rather let FB sell my info which I provide willingly than a credit bureau sell my salary history, which I don't.
the_arun 5y ago
So a new company you are joining can easily verify your current salary with your ssn & dob. Right? They have your history of employers from your resume already.
- astura 5y ago
  That's not legal under the FCRA unless you've given them written permission. Though some companies will do a background check on all new hires (again, with your permission) which would include employment verification.
  - joezydeco 5y ago
    And that's a critical point to remember. Get the job offer and negotiate salary before agreeing to a background check. Let them make the offer be contingent on the results of those checks (and drug screen or security check or whatever else they want). But before turning in notice on your current job, wait until all checks are completed and make them reissue the offer letter with all contingencies removed. Otherwise you're still at risk of them pulling the offer while you're busy packing up your desk.

theworknumber.com is yet another symptom of a much larger problem in that it is currently impractical for a regular person to enforce their rights via the court system. According to Peter Thiel “If you’re a single-digit millionaire like Hulk Hogan, you have no effective access to our legal system...” https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-says-single-digit-millionaires-have-no-effective-access-to-our-legal-system/ https://theintercept.com/2016/10/31/trump-fan-peter-thiel-sa... So never-mind the non-millionaires. However it is really nice to see efforts by some regular people out there setting up services such as https://yourdigitalrights.org https://yourdigitalrights.org which is the service I just used to request my information from Equifax. It will be interesting to see what comes of it. I suppose if they do not respond in 45 days I'll file a complaint with the CA Attorney General to put yet another ping regarding Equifax on their radar. https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-business-or-company https://oag.ca.gov/contact/consumer-complaint-against-busine... This shows that ultimately it is the regular people who drive progress, while the powerful and the wealthy just take credit for it. Ultimately United States will transition to European-style privacy laws when it comes to private information like income and these credit agencies will be abolished, but the way to get there is for the regular non-millionaire people to exercise whatever "rights" they kinda have to ultimately get these annoyances shut down.

vulcan01 5y ago

You don't need to. Your employer can give this info to whoever they want, and many give this data to Equifax or one of the other credit agencies. Also, you might give your bank employment details, and your bank will most likely send that info to a credit agency as well. There's not much of an escape.

registeredcorn 5y ago
What exactly do employers and banks stand to gain from sharing this information? Is it an exchange of information for money?
- ralph84 5y ago
  For employers it offloads employment and salary verification. Instead of having to pay someone to answer verification calls all day they just upload the data to The Work Number and let them handle it.
  - divbzero 5y ago
    Are employers obligated to provide employment and salary verification?
    - ralph84 5y ago
      If they didn't their employees would be pretty pissed when they're unable to get a mortgage.
      - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
        So go to HR and say "please sign this form that says I make $X" rather than preemptively broadcasting it?
        function_seven 5y ago
        Here's how I imagine this goes down: ADP Rep: "Hey, we have an exciting new feature to offer you! We partner with the worlds premiere credit and employment reporting agency to eliminate the hassle of salary and employment verification." VP, HR: "Go on..." ADP: "If you opt in to this innovative program, you'll never again have to respond to your employees' lenders or landlords. 97% of banks participate in this program. Instead of them asking their applicant—your employee—for paperwork that you have to deal with, they come direct to the source automatically. Again, this is at no additional cost. It's included with our Premium Payroll Plus offering. Interested?" HR: "Yeah, of course. One less thing I have to deal with" ADP: "And the best part is you'll then qualify for a substantial discount on our partner's Employment Data System. Rest easy with unlimited verification reports for all your prospective new hires" HR: "Anyone ever turn this down?" ADP: "Almost never."
rhacker 5y ago
Opt out of the system as soon as you possibly can. No mortgage, no bank, no address, no traditional job.
- sofixa 5y ago
  Or, combine with other people to fight the ridiculous system? Even if you manage to pull off a life like this, you're limiting yourself significantly and leaving many people behind.
  - jokethrowaway 5y ago
    - colordrops 5y ago
      Where do you live now? Is it the least shitty place you've lived? And if not, where?
    - caddybox 5y ago
      > It's impossible, people are not rebelling after being forced in their homes for two years Did you ever get the news that the world went through a pandemic and millions of people lost their lives? We all hate being cooped up at home but what's the alternative? What did you expect the governments to do when they had no other solutions? When you talk about good countries, please remember that their citizens make them so. If you ever happen to move to one of these "good" countries, please remember that these societies are built upon a collective realization that rights come with a set of moral duties and obligations towards each other. By staying inside, we bought old, sick and immune-compromised people some time till a vaccine arrived.
- jokethrowaway 5y ago
  No mortgage and no job are achievable. You kind of need a bank, if you go around with cash the police or other criminals can just seize it. You also may want an address to live somewhere, I'd rather live in a house than in a car.
nocardium 5y ago
If I bundle my personal information together into an nft and then buy that nft, could I issue the credit agency with a DMCA takedown notice?
- voltagedivider 5y ago
  Aren't NFTs essentially just file hashes/signatures that can be associated with a public/private key pair on a blockchain? If so, the link between the NFT and the key pair might be solid (as in cryptographically secure) but the link between the NFT and its "underlying asset" (which might be copyrightable) seems flimsy. That being said, since both NFT ownership and our legal systems rely on consensus and majority opinion, it's not hard to imagine a corrupt society in which the opinion of judges is disregarded in favor of blockchain consensus. Edit: you might be joking but it's an interesting question nonetheless because it highlights how various systems compete for legitimacy :)
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  Try it and let us know!
- kevincox 5y ago
  IANAL The NFT would be completely irrelevant here. Basically I assume you are claiming copyright over your salary and personal information. Unfortunately you can't trademark facts, so this approach isn't viable.

geoduck14 5y ago

>But, I didn't opt in for them to have this information about me to begin with. Everyone is up in arms about Facebook and Google collecting our information... meanwhile credit bureaus are sitting in the shadows giggling to themselves

caconym_ 5y ago
The obsession with "big tech" as the biggest abuser of consumer privacy frustrates the hell out of me, and must be a real delight to credit bureaus, cell carriers, data brokers, fintech parasites, and all the rest of the slimy fuckers who do far worse things every day and aren't even on the public's radar.
- randmeerkat 5y ago
  Reporting an employee’s salary vs Zuckerberg selling your political motivations to manipulate elections are two different ballparks. It’s not that people aren’t frustrated with other abusers of customer privacy, it’s just big tech is the best at it.
  - caconym_ 5y ago
    The Big Techs that run on ad revenue typically keep user data to themselves, and offer advertisers a platform for targeting ads without knowledge of individual users. There have been some scandals (CA is the one I always think of, and there are more) but typically selling de-anonymized user data is not the business model of these companies. That doesn't stop people from saying it is, but AFAIK they are largely incorrect. Contrast that with e.g. the somewhat recent revelations that cell carriers have been selling individuals' granular, de-anonymized location history data to, essentially, anybody willing to pay. From a privacy standpoint, which I think is the context here, I consider the latter sort of thing to be far worse.
  - fallingknife 5y ago
    They are 2 very different ballparks in that I would much rather let FB sell my info which I provide willingly than a credit bureau sell my salary history, which I don't.

the_arun 5y ago

So a new company you are joining can easily verify your current salary with your ssn & dob. Right? They have your history of employers from your resume already.

astura 5y ago
That's not legal under the FCRA unless you've given them written permission. Though some companies will do a background check on all new hires (again, with your permission) which would include employment verification.
- joezydeco 5y ago
  And that's a critical point to remember. Get the job offer and negotiate salary before agreeing to a background check. Let them make the offer be contingent on the results of those checks (and drug screen or security check or whatever else they want). But before turning in notice on your current job, wait until all checks are completed and make them reissue the offer letter with all contingencies removed. Otherwise you're still at risk of them pulling the offer while you're busy packing up your desk.