5 ms·

Yes hi, "aspergers" is an unfortunate nomenclature and many autistic folks (myself included) strongly resent it. It was named after a Nazi doctor (Hans Asperge

Yes hi, "aspergers" is an unfortunate nomenclature and many autistic folks (myself included) strongly resent it. It was named after a Nazi doctor (Hans Asperger) and used to classify autistic folks into "useful" and "non-useful" people -- as Nazis and Eugenicists are known to do. When you think of it, if you could refer to folks on the spectrum as such, without referencing the outdated nomenclature (the DSM-5 replaced it for diagnostics, now everything falls under the Autism Spectrum, rather than viewing the "higher functioning" folks as having a distinct diagnosis) Thanks!

AussieWog93 5y ago
- IAmEveryone 5y ago
  A perfectly acceptable term outside some circles is, by definition, not acceptable, at least not “perfectly”. And the (undisputed) fact that Asperger was quite the Nazi should, just by itself, disqualify the term. OPs comment linking the dual terms to the similar binary classification into useful/useless human beings goes even further by showing that usage of the term doesn’t just glorify someone who doesn’t deserve it, but shows how that practice derives from and continues the namesake’s hateful ideology.
- fao_ 5y ago
  Sorry... are you arguing for a term that separates autistic people into "productive" and "non productive" that was created by a literal Nazi? I am autistic, pretty much all of the people I know are autistic, and even most of the people I know through my workplace are autistic (it's explicitly a neurodiverse workplace), and I've pretty much never seen anyone need to use the term "aspergers" in general conversation. As in, when talking about symptoms, when talking about diagnosis, when talking about anything to do with it, people just talk about the thing, rather than branding it as "aspergers versus autistic". I'll go further and say that, not only is it not in general parlance, but also that if you used the term "aspergers" in or around these circles, you would be lightly corrected, looked on disfavourably, or given a side-eye, at the least.
  - fragmede 5y ago
    Pre-Godwinning the discussion doesn't raise discourse, it dumbs it down. Yes that's the history of the term but it was also the accepted term until after its removal from the DSM in 2013, and not everyone that grew up with that term is as plugged in as you and gotten the memo to moved over to the new term yet. It's fine to be angry at neurotypical people who use it as a slur, but you won't win many converts attacking people who aren't, especially using an anecdote about how you don't use the word as supporting evidence. Btw, the plural of anecdote is not anecdata which is not data.
    - howinteresting 5y ago
      It isn't Godwinning when an actual German Nazi is involved.
      - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
        Its a goddamn name. What are we cancelling Heidegger next? Burn copies of Being and Time?
        howinteresting 5y ago
        Heidegger was """cancelled""" back in his time, and he should remain so.
      - wavegeek 5y ago
        > actual German Nazi Asperger was Austrian. Asperger was never a member of the Nazi party. Impressive to make 2 errors in 3 words.
        howinteresting 5y ago
        Congrats, you got me there.
    - alasdair_ 5y ago
      It's not Godwinning something if the term is literally named after a Nazi and only came about directly as a result of a Nazi eugenics program.
- howinteresting 5y ago
  Please ignore AussieWog93. georgestephanis is correct: autism politics are indeed messy but as an autistic person who in a different age would be classed as Asperger's, I detest the term for the same reason georgestephanis does.
overboard2 5y ago
Yes hi, why is the category of those with Asperger's syndrome not useful for the further understanding and communication of information.
- georgestephanis 5y ago
  What information do you feel can be communicated and understood with that moniker that is not served by Autism Spectrum? And why do you feel those distinctions (if any) merit a wholly distinct diagnosis?
  - mwigdahl 5y ago
    I'll bite. "Autism Spectrum" is a deliberately vague term that has been created and stretched to bring a variety of minor social and emotional functional differences under the general label of "autism". As far as I can tell, in the US the major purpose of this has been to divert special education funding from severely impaired children to less-impaired children from higher socioeconomic strata, and it has been very effective in doing so. So to directly answer your questions, "Asperger's" (or whatever substitute term you find acceptable -- I'm perfectly fine with a substitute) is very useful to distinguish people with minor social and emotional functional differences -- those people who are, for example, able to hold down a tech job and post about autistic politics to Hacker News -- from highly impaired people such as my daughter who will never hold a job and whose verbal skills are at a three year old level. These distinctions are vitally important to ensure that appropriate funding goes to these highly impaired children rather than being siphoned away to children of well-connected or politically savvy parents who are fully capable of succeeding in the mainstream educational system without aid.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      > I'm perfectly fine with a substitute) is very useful to distinguish people with minor social and emotional functional differences -- those people who are, for example, able to hold down a tech job and post about autistic politics to Hacker News -- from highly impaired people such as my daughter who will never hold a job and whose verbal skills are at a three year old level. There are plenty of people who the diagnosis of Asperger's who will never hold down a job. I'd hardly consider it "minor" even if it is relative to your daughter.
wavegeek 5y ago
> Nazi doctor Asperger was never a member of the Nazi party. I invite everyone here who has stood up against a murderous totalitarian dictatorship at the likely cost of their life to tell us how Asperger should have done better. > now everything falls under the Autism Spectrum This is only true in the US. And people who were previously diagnosed as Aspergers retain that diagnosis, even in the US.
- m_fayer 5y ago
  I want to strongly second this. Asperger was a complicated person with a complicated story in a brutal context, but ultimately a sympathetic and insightful man. His story is told in "Neurotribes" which is a thorough history of autism, and highly recommended.

AussieWog93 5y ago

IAmEveryone 5y ago
A perfectly acceptable term outside some circles is, by definition, not acceptable, at least not “perfectly”. And the (undisputed) fact that Asperger was quite the Nazi should, just by itself, disqualify the term. OPs comment linking the dual terms to the similar binary classification into useful/useless human beings goes even further by showing that usage of the term doesn’t just glorify someone who doesn’t deserve it, but shows how that practice derives from and continues the namesake’s hateful ideology.
fao_ 5y ago
Sorry... are you arguing for a term that separates autistic people into "productive" and "non productive" that was created by a literal Nazi? I am autistic, pretty much all of the people I know are autistic, and even most of the people I know through my workplace are autistic (it's explicitly a neurodiverse workplace), and I've pretty much never seen anyone need to use the term "aspergers" in general conversation. As in, when talking about symptoms, when talking about diagnosis, when talking about anything to do with it, people just talk about the thing, rather than branding it as "aspergers versus autistic". I'll go further and say that, not only is it not in general parlance, but also that if you used the term "aspergers" in or around these circles, you would be lightly corrected, looked on disfavourably, or given a side-eye, at the least.
- fragmede 5y ago
  Pre-Godwinning the discussion doesn't raise discourse, it dumbs it down. Yes that's the history of the term but it was also the accepted term until after its removal from the DSM in 2013, and not everyone that grew up with that term is as plugged in as you and gotten the memo to moved over to the new term yet. It's fine to be angry at neurotypical people who use it as a slur, but you won't win many converts attacking people who aren't, especially using an anecdote about how you don't use the word as supporting evidence. Btw, the plural of anecdote is not anecdata which is not data.
  - howinteresting 5y ago
    It isn't Godwinning when an actual German Nazi is involved.
    - NikolaeVarius 5y ago
      Its a goddamn name. What are we cancelling Heidegger next? Burn copies of Being and Time?
      - howinteresting 5y ago
        Heidegger was """cancelled""" back in his time, and he should remain so.
    - wavegeek 5y ago
      > actual German Nazi Asperger was Austrian. Asperger was never a member of the Nazi party. Impressive to make 2 errors in 3 words.
      - howinteresting 5y ago
        Congrats, you got me there.
  - alasdair_ 5y ago
    It's not Godwinning something if the term is literally named after a Nazi and only came about directly as a result of a Nazi eugenics program.
howinteresting 5y ago
Please ignore AussieWog93. georgestephanis is correct: autism politics are indeed messy but as an autistic person who in a different age would be classed as Asperger's, I detest the term for the same reason georgestephanis does.

overboard2 5y ago

Yes hi, why is the category of those with Asperger's syndrome not useful for the further understanding and communication of information.

georgestephanis 5y ago
What information do you feel can be communicated and understood with that moniker that is not served by Autism Spectrum? And why do you feel those distinctions (if any) merit a wholly distinct diagnosis?
- mwigdahl 5y ago
  I'll bite. "Autism Spectrum" is a deliberately vague term that has been created and stretched to bring a variety of minor social and emotional functional differences under the general label of "autism". As far as I can tell, in the US the major purpose of this has been to divert special education funding from severely impaired children to less-impaired children from higher socioeconomic strata, and it has been very effective in doing so. So to directly answer your questions, "Asperger's" (or whatever substitute term you find acceptable -- I'm perfectly fine with a substitute) is very useful to distinguish people with minor social and emotional functional differences -- those people who are, for example, able to hold down a tech job and post about autistic politics to Hacker News -- from highly impaired people such as my daughter who will never hold a job and whose verbal skills are at a three year old level. These distinctions are vitally important to ensure that appropriate funding goes to these highly impaired children rather than being siphoned away to children of well-connected or politically savvy parents who are fully capable of succeeding in the mainstream educational system without aid.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    > I'm perfectly fine with a substitute) is very useful to distinguish people with minor social and emotional functional differences -- those people who are, for example, able to hold down a tech job and post about autistic politics to Hacker News -- from highly impaired people such as my daughter who will never hold a job and whose verbal skills are at a three year old level. There are plenty of people who the diagnosis of Asperger's who will never hold down a job. I'd hardly consider it "minor" even if it is relative to your daughter.

wavegeek 5y ago

> Nazi doctor Asperger was never a member of the Nazi party. I invite everyone here who has stood up against a murderous totalitarian dictatorship at the likely cost of their life to tell us how Asperger should have done better. > now everything falls under the Autism Spectrum This is only true in the US. And people who were previously diagnosed as Aspergers retain that diagnosis, even in the US.

m_fayer 5y ago
I want to strongly second this. Asperger was a complicated person with a complicated story in a brutal context, but ultimately a sympathetic and insightful man. His story is told in "Neurotribes" which is a thorough history of autism, and highly recommended.