4 ms·

> A list of socialist or communist governments now: > [...] Argentina [...] No. Source: I live in Argentina and it's neither socialist nor communist. It's cu

by the_af 5y ago

> A list of socialist or communist governments now: > [...] Argentina [...] No. Source: I live in Argentina and it's neither socialist nor communist. It's currently center-left capitalist. Our immediately preceding government was center-right capitalist. In the 70s we had far-right capitalist military dictatorship (Chicago boys influenced economy wise, School of the Americas trained).

germandiago 5y ago
Argentina is almost socialist in taxing terms. And 21 million of people are subsidized. I do not see a capitalist system subsidizing 21 million people. That is not capitalism. Call it something else.
- malermeister 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - dang 5y ago
    It looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's a line at which we start banning accounts, regardless of what their favored ideology actually is, because this way of using HN is destructive of what the site is supposed to be for (intellectual curiosity). I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please use the site as intended, that would be good. More explanation here in case it's helpful: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959679 https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20bimodal%20battle&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
  - germandiago 5y ago
    [flagged]
    - the_af 5y ago
      If the only capitalist in Argentina you know is Milei (far right, self-proclaimed "libertarian", worked under a known criminal of our military dictatorship) then you're out of touch. Really, consider how you're shifting the goalposts: you only consider far right libertarians as capitalists. The rest of the world disagrees with you. Anyway, I live in Argentina and you don't. You are wrong. > That is not capitalism. Call it something else. No. You must use definitions of capitalism compatible with the current consensus. Otherwise you're playing the same game you keep accusing leftists of, "that's not true capitalism, I mean something else!".
      - germandiago 5y ago
        Far right is the label you put to degrade Milei. Milei is a libertarian. If that looks to you like "far right" it is your call. For me those are very different things. Apart from this comment: capitalism is free market and low regulations. By that measure, how capitalist is Argentina? As much as this in the economic freedom index, which could be considered an index of "how capitalist" a country is (position 148): https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking If this is capitalism... I do not know what consensus you talk about. Capitalism is low or no regulation and free market. Also, should favor low taxing. Otherwise you have social democracy. > Anyway, I live in Argentina and you don't. You are wrong. This is a fallacy of authority, as you can see by the economic freedom index I shared with you. Position 148 next to countries like Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Ecuador... even the communist Laos has a better score in economic freedom!!! I live in Vietnam, Laos is next to where I used to live in Hanoi. If that has more economic freedom than Argentina, Argentina cannot in any way be considered capitalist as such.
        int_19h 5y ago
        Social democracy is capitalist. Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production. It has nothing to do with free markets and economic freedom in general, or with high taxes. The only prerequisite for a capitalist system is the ability to buy and sell capital without any limits - that's why it's called capitalism, not free-market-ism or whatever. Free markets predate capitalism.
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  How many people in USA receive food stamps or Medicare due to low income while being part or full time employees?
  - aspenmayer 5y ago
    I looked it up.[0][1] It’s a lot. About 14.7 million Americans work full time and receive Medicare or food stamps (SNAP). > And 21 million of people are subsidized. I do not see a capitalist system subsidizing 21 million people. That is not capitalism. Call it something else. So by your logic, USA is a socialist country? Democratic socialist? Communist? That’s… not what most Americans would say. > The numbers could not be fully explained by part-time schedules; about 70 percent of the 21 million people receiving Medicaid or SNAP benefits work full time, in general, the GAO said. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stamps-medicaid-mcdonalds-walmart-bernie-sanders/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stam... [1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stamps-medicaid-mcdonalds-walmart-bernie-sanders/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...

by the_af 5y ago

germandiago 5y ago

Argentina is almost socialist in taxing terms. And 21 million of people are subsidized. I do not see a capitalist system subsidizing 21 million people. That is not capitalism. Call it something else.

malermeister 5y ago
[flagged]
- dang 5y ago
  It looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's a line at which we start banning accounts, regardless of what their favored ideology actually is, because this way of using HN is destructive of what the site is supposed to be for (intellectual curiosity). I don't want to ban you, so if you'd please use the site as intended, that would be good. More explanation here in case it's helpful: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959679 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23959679 https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix=false&page=0&query=primarily%20test%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme... https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20bimodal%20battle&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
- germandiago 5y ago
  [flagged]
  - the_af 5y ago
    If the only capitalist in Argentina you know is Milei (far right, self-proclaimed "libertarian", worked under a known criminal of our military dictatorship) then you're out of touch. Really, consider how you're shifting the goalposts: you only consider far right libertarians as capitalists. The rest of the world disagrees with you. Anyway, I live in Argentina and you don't. You are wrong. > That is not capitalism. Call it something else. No. You must use definitions of capitalism compatible with the current consensus. Otherwise you're playing the same game you keep accusing leftists of, "that's not true capitalism, I mean something else!".
    - germandiago 5y ago
      Far right is the label you put to degrade Milei. Milei is a libertarian. If that looks to you like "far right" it is your call. For me those are very different things. Apart from this comment: capitalism is free market and low regulations. By that measure, how capitalist is Argentina? As much as this in the economic freedom index, which could be considered an index of "how capitalist" a country is (position 148): https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking If this is capitalism... I do not know what consensus you talk about. Capitalism is low or no regulation and free market. Also, should favor low taxing. Otherwise you have social democracy. > Anyway, I live in Argentina and you don't. You are wrong. This is a fallacy of authority, as you can see by the economic freedom index I shared with you. Position 148 next to countries like Afghanistan, Ethiopia, Ecuador... even the communist Laos has a better score in economic freedom!!! I live in Vietnam, Laos is next to where I used to live in Hanoi. If that has more economic freedom than Argentina, Argentina cannot in any way be considered capitalist as such.
      - int_19h 5y ago
        Social democracy is capitalist. Capitalism is private ownership of the means of production. It has nothing to do with free markets and economic freedom in general, or with high taxes. The only prerequisite for a capitalist system is the ability to buy and sell capital without any limits - that's why it's called capitalism, not free-market-ism or whatever. Free markets predate capitalism.
aspenmayer 5y ago
How many people in USA receive food stamps or Medicare due to low income while being part or full time employees?
- aspenmayer 5y ago
  I looked it up.[0][1] It’s a lot. About 14.7 million Americans work full time and receive Medicare or food stamps (SNAP). > And 21 million of people are subsidized. I do not see a capitalist system subsidizing 21 million people. That is not capitalism. Call it something else. So by your logic, USA is a socialist country? Democratic socialist? Communist? That’s… not what most Americans would say. > The numbers could not be fully explained by part-time schedules; about 70 percent of the 21 million people receiving Medicaid or SNAP benefits work full time, in general, the GAO said. [0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stamps-medicaid-mcdonalds-walmart-bernie-sanders/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stam... [1] http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/11/18/food-stamps-medicaid-mcdonalds-walmart-bernie-sanders/ http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https:/...