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Let people make their own medical decisions. As we're seeing right now, even high levels of vaccination don't protect a community against high rates of transmis

Let people make their own medical decisions. As we're seeing right now, even high levels of vaccination don't protect a community against high rates of transmission. Just look at Israel, which was the first country in the world to widely roll out boosters and is currently in the middle of an Omicron wave. Initially there were hopes that vaccines would suppress the spread of the virus enough to end the pandemic, and if that turned out to be true then the unvaccinated would in fact be prolonging the pandemic, but now we know that that is not true. Anyone can get Covid, and anyone can give it to someone else. Vaccines are about personal protection at this point, not community protection.

c0nducktr 5y ago
They keep the hospitalization numbers down, which I feel is rather important to a community.
- pageandrew 5y ago
  Is there any active rationing of healthcare anywhere in the US due to the Omicron or Delta waves? I always hear about how the hospital system "could be overwhelmed" but I haven't seen any real evidence that people were being denied care because there are too many unvaccinated people in the hospital.
  - tssva 5y ago
    Here is some anecdotal evidence for you. My daughter's riding instructor was scheduled for long needed back surgery on November 29th. Her pain has gotten so bad that she can no longer work and is basically bed ridden. Her surgery was cancelled for the 29th and has been repeatedly rescheduled then cancelled since because the hospital is overwhelmed by COVID patients. She is now scheduled for Monday and hopefully will actually be able to have the surgery this time.
  - Rodeoclash 5y ago
    In my state, Victoria Australia, elective surgery has been suspended (again!) due to the rising number of Covid infections. https://www.smh.com.au/national/hospitals-are-being-crippled-elective-surgery-halted-as-health-system-strains-under-pressure-20220105-p59m1j.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/hospitals-are-being-crippled... We have also had the ambulance system issue statements that they are having delays in reaching people (code reds). The unvaccinated make up the bulk of people that need hospital treatment here. Their choice to remain unvaccinated is having a direct impact on the community as a whole.
toomuchtodo 5y ago
When your decision impacts others (through health system overload), they’re not your medical decisions, these are community/social fabric decisions. Unless we’re going to triage hospital care for the unvaccinated to the back of the line, in which case I support vaccine choice (vaccinated myself, adult family members who aren’t). This is a group project we're being graded on. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7046a5.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7046a5.htm (Impact of Hospital Strain on Excess Deaths During the COVID-19 Pandemic — United States, July 2020–July 2021) https://medicalpartnership.usg.edu/covid-19-staggering-statistic-98-to-99-of-americans-dying-are-unvaccinated/ https://medicalpartnership.usg.edu/covid-19-staggering-stati... (Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated) https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/health-details.aspx?newsid=1595 https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/health-details.aspx?newsid=15... (Vaccines Work: 97% Of COVID Deaths, 95% Of Hospitalizations And 94% Of Cases Are Among Unvaccinated Pennsylvanians) https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccina... (Unvaccinated People Are 11 Times More Likely To Die Of COVID-19, New Research Finds | September 10th, 2021) https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/18/health-workers-overwhelmed-covid-deaths-among-unvaccinated/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/18/health-workers-overwhelm... (‘It’s soul-draining’: Health workers deployed to Covid hot zones are overwhelmed by deaths among the unvaccinated) https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination (Our World In Data: How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-short... (Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs") https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/us-covid-19-hospitals-full-texas-alabama https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/u... (Americans are dying because no hospital will take them)
- RONROC 5y ago
  The hospital strain point gets made a lot but I have one problem with this. Its been two years: have hospitals or the healthcare industry as a whole made an honest effort at upping the capacity in their facilities? Why would the healthcare system of the alleged preeminent nation on planet Earth not have capacity for its citizens past a certain threshold? Many cities have older hospitals that have yet to match the population increase. If so, why is that? And should someone do something about it? Edited, to add one more question: if they shouldn’t, why not?
darthrupert 5y ago

c0nducktr 5y ago

They keep the hospitalization numbers down, which I feel is rather important to a community.

pageandrew 5y ago
Is there any active rationing of healthcare anywhere in the US due to the Omicron or Delta waves? I always hear about how the hospital system "could be overwhelmed" but I haven't seen any real evidence that people were being denied care because there are too many unvaccinated people in the hospital.
- tssva 5y ago
  Here is some anecdotal evidence for you. My daughter's riding instructor was scheduled for long needed back surgery on November 29th. Her pain has gotten so bad that she can no longer work and is basically bed ridden. Her surgery was cancelled for the 29th and has been repeatedly rescheduled then cancelled since because the hospital is overwhelmed by COVID patients. She is now scheduled for Monday and hopefully will actually be able to have the surgery this time.
- Rodeoclash 5y ago
  In my state, Victoria Australia, elective surgery has been suspended (again!) due to the rising number of Covid infections. https://www.smh.com.au/national/hospitals-are-being-crippled-elective-surgery-halted-as-health-system-strains-under-pressure-20220105-p59m1j.html https://www.smh.com.au/national/hospitals-are-being-crippled... We have also had the ambulance system issue statements that they are having delays in reaching people (code reds). The unvaccinated make up the bulk of people that need hospital treatment here. Their choice to remain unvaccinated is having a direct impact on the community as a whole.

toomuchtodo 5y ago

When your decision impacts others (through health system overload), they’re not your medical decisions, these are community/social fabric decisions. Unless we’re going to triage hospital care for the unvaccinated to the back of the line, in which case I support vaccine choice (vaccinated myself, adult family members who aren’t). This is a group project we're being graded on. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7046a5.htm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7046a5.htm (Impact of Hospital Strain on Excess Deaths During the COVID-19 Pandemic — United States, July 2020–July 2021) https://medicalpartnership.usg.edu/covid-19-staggering-statistic-98-to-99-of-americans-dying-are-unvaccinated/ https://medicalpartnership.usg.edu/covid-19-staggering-stati... (Staggering COVID-19 Statistic: 98% to 99% of Americans Dying are Unvaccinated) https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/health-details.aspx?newsid=1595 https://www.media.pa.gov/pages/health-details.aspx?newsid=15... (Vaccines Work: 97% Of COVID Deaths, 95% Of Hospitalizations And 94% Of Cases Are Among Unvaccinated Pennsylvanians) https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccinated-deaths-11-times-more-likely https://www.npr.org/2021/09/10/1036023973/covid-19-unvaccina... (Unvaccinated People Are 11 Times More Likely To Die Of COVID-19, New Research Finds | September 10th, 2021) https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/18/health-workers-overwhelmed-covid-deaths-among-unvaccinated/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/08/18/health-workers-overwhelm... (‘It’s soul-draining’: Health workers deployed to Covid hot zones are overwhelmed by deaths among the unvaccinated) https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination (Our World In Data: How do death rates from COVID-19 differ between people who are vaccinated and those who are not?) https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-shortage-veteran-dies-treatable-illness/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-us-hospital-icu-bed-short... (Veteran dies of treatable illness as COVID fills hospital beds, leaving doctors "playing musical chairs") https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/us-covid-19-hospitals-full-texas-alabama https://www.vox.com/coronavirus-covid19/2021/9/14/22650733/u... (Americans are dying because no hospital will take them)

RONROC 5y ago
The hospital strain point gets made a lot but I have one problem with this. Its been two years: have hospitals or the healthcare industry as a whole made an honest effort at upping the capacity in their facilities? Why would the healthcare system of the alleged preeminent nation on planet Earth not have capacity for its citizens past a certain threshold? Many cities have older hospitals that have yet to match the population increase. If so, why is that? And should someone do something about it? Edited, to add one more question: if they shouldn’t, why not?

darthrupert 5y ago