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And some of the toxic by-products of that production are then put into our drinking water instead of being properly disposed of https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridatio

And some of the toxic by-products of that production are then put into our drinking water instead of being properly disposed of https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/engineering/engineering-shortages.htm https://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/engineering/engineering-sho... >The three fluoride additives used for water fluoridation are derived principally from phosphate fertilizer production.

lovich 5y ago
Is fluoride in our drinking water a problem? I happen to like my teeth
- OJFord 5y ago
  Some locales (all of the USA, I believe) add it for the benefit of teeth. (Like anything there's presumably a poisonous dosage! But) no, not a problem.
- machinerychorus 5y ago
  While it is typically railed against by crackpots, it also shouldn't be assumed to be safe/correct. We've been adding flouride to water for a long time, without much understanding of the risks, benefits, or proper dosage. Here's an article from the atlantic (not a crackpot news source) which goes into detail: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/why-fluoride-water/606784/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/why-flu...
  - worik 5y ago
    https://www.cochrane.org/CD010856/ORAL_water-fluoridation-prevent-tooth-decay https://www.cochrane.org/CD010856/ORAL_water-fluoridation-pr... Key results Our review found that water fluoridation is effective at reducing levels of tooth decay among children. The introduction of water fluoridation resulted in children having 35% fewer decayed, missing and filled baby teeth and 26% fewer decayed, missing and filled permanent teeth. We also found that fluoridation led to a 15% increase in children with no decay in their baby teeth and a 14% increase in children with no decay in their permanent teeth. These results are based predominantly on old studies and may not be applicable today.
    - xboxnolifes 5y ago
      There is basically consensus that fluoride in the drinking water is good for teeth. The worry is that consuming it may have other negative effects unrelated to teeth. We know that fluoride in higher dosage isn't good to be consumed, but what about long term, small dosage exposure?
      - worik 5y ago
        Yes. Pity the nut jobs use up all the oxygen saying it is method of disposing of toxic waste and a social control measure....
    - User23 5y ago
      But it may come at the price of childhood brain development[1]. I haven't evaluated the merits of that study, but that's showing a significant effect in a peer-reviewed journal. In any event I'd say it warrants further study. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5285601/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5285601/
- CoastalCoder 5y ago
  If you'll forgive my use of an anecdote... I stopped getting cavities when I started using a good electric toothbrush, not when I started drinking fluoridated water. So no idea if the statistics bear this out, but personally I don't care much about the fluoride.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    I stopped getting tons of cavities when I started drinking fluoridated water as a kid. I didn't have an electric toothbrush until well into my 20s. So I guess that's 2 data points? What now?
    - CoastalCoder 5y ago
      I wasn't trying to demonstrate that brushing trumps fluoride. I shared my experience in the hope it would spark interesting discussion.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        I know a dentist in a suburb of a city that does not fluoridate. They said they can guess whether or not the patient grew up in the city or outside the city simply based on their dental history.
    - tharkun__ 5y ago
      Why we need a third data point of course! :) My childhood drinking water was not fluoridated and I've never to this date owned an electric toothbrush. I didn't have any cavities until my 20s. What do we make of this?
- photochemsyn 5y ago
  Fluoride in water doesn't do anything for teeth. The fluoridation treatments dentists use are effective but that's a concentrated paste applied for some minutes to the teeth in a dentist's chair. Diluted fluoride in the water supply has zero benefit for teeth.
  - AlexandrB 5y ago
    Research seems to disagree with you[1]. Do you have a citation for your assertion? [1] https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-health-getting-worse-without-community-water-fluoridation https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-he...
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- aunty_helen 5y ago
  Would you take a couple point IQ hit in exchange? I got in a heated debate with a fluoride crackpot and they annoyed me enough that I went to "do my own research." This ultimately led me to some weird places of the internet but also to places like the CDC... who really didn't have strong language for its safety around developing brains. It was very "its safe, but we should look into why kids in adjacent neighbourhoods with flouride are slightly dumber than those without." I won't post a link to this, do your own research. Having read a bit about it, I came away with a slightly changed view on fluoride.
AlexandrB 5y ago
The source of something doesn't tell you much about its health effects. A lot of life saving drugs are created using industrial processes involving many nasty chemicals. This is not too far from the logic of signing a petition against dihydrogen monoxide because it sounds like a scary chemical.

lovich 5y ago

Is fluoride in our drinking water a problem? I happen to like my teeth

OJFord 5y ago
Some locales (all of the USA, I believe) add it for the benefit of teeth. (Like anything there's presumably a poisonous dosage! But) no, not a problem.
machinerychorus 5y ago
While it is typically railed against by crackpots, it also shouldn't be assumed to be safe/correct. We've been adding flouride to water for a long time, without much understanding of the risks, benefits, or proper dosage. Here's an article from the atlantic (not a crackpot news source) which goes into detail: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/why-fluoride-water/606784/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/04/why-flu...
- worik 5y ago
  https://www.cochrane.org/CD010856/ORAL_water-fluoridation-prevent-tooth-decay https://www.cochrane.org/CD010856/ORAL_water-fluoridation-pr... Key results Our review found that water fluoridation is effective at reducing levels of tooth decay among children. The introduction of water fluoridation resulted in children having 35% fewer decayed, missing and filled baby teeth and 26% fewer decayed, missing and filled permanent teeth. We also found that fluoridation led to a 15% increase in children with no decay in their baby teeth and a 14% increase in children with no decay in their permanent teeth. These results are based predominantly on old studies and may not be applicable today.
  - xboxnolifes 5y ago
    There is basically consensus that fluoride in the drinking water is good for teeth. The worry is that consuming it may have other negative effects unrelated to teeth. We know that fluoride in higher dosage isn't good to be consumed, but what about long term, small dosage exposure?
    - worik 5y ago
      Yes. Pity the nut jobs use up all the oxygen saying it is method of disposing of toxic waste and a social control measure....
  - User23 5y ago
    But it may come at the price of childhood brain development[1]. I haven't evaluated the merits of that study, but that's showing a significant effect in a peer-reviewed journal. In any event I'd say it warrants further study. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5285601/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5285601/
CoastalCoder 5y ago
If you'll forgive my use of an anecdote... I stopped getting cavities when I started using a good electric toothbrush, not when I started drinking fluoridated water. So no idea if the statistics bear this out, but personally I don't care much about the fluoride.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  I stopped getting tons of cavities when I started drinking fluoridated water as a kid. I didn't have an electric toothbrush until well into my 20s. So I guess that's 2 data points? What now?
  - CoastalCoder 5y ago
    I wasn't trying to demonstrate that brushing trumps fluoride. I shared my experience in the hope it would spark interesting discussion.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      I know a dentist in a suburb of a city that does not fluoridate. They said they can guess whether or not the patient grew up in the city or outside the city simply based on their dental history.
  - tharkun__ 5y ago
    Why we need a third data point of course! :) My childhood drinking water was not fluoridated and I've never to this date owned an electric toothbrush. I didn't have any cavities until my 20s. What do we make of this?
photochemsyn 5y ago
Fluoride in water doesn't do anything for teeth. The fluoridation treatments dentists use are effective but that's a concentrated paste applied for some minutes to the teeth in a dentist's chair. Diluted fluoride in the water supply has zero benefit for teeth.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  Research seems to disagree with you[1]. Do you have a citation for your assertion? [1] https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-health-getting-worse-without-community-water-fluoridation https://cumming.ucalgary.ca/news/calgary-childrens-dental-he...
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
aunty_helen 5y ago
Would you take a couple point IQ hit in exchange? I got in a heated debate with a fluoride crackpot and they annoyed me enough that I went to "do my own research." This ultimately led me to some weird places of the internet but also to places like the CDC... who really didn't have strong language for its safety around developing brains. It was very "its safe, but we should look into why kids in adjacent neighbourhoods with flouride are slightly dumber than those without." I won't post a link to this, do your own research. Having read a bit about it, I came away with a slightly changed view on fluoride.

AlexandrB 5y ago

The source of something doesn't tell you much about its health effects. A lot of life saving drugs are created using industrial processes involving many nasty chemicals. This is not too far from the logic of signing a petition against dihydrogen monoxide because it sounds like a scary chemical.