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I have literally told a HR person "I'm not answering this question" and when told to do or cancel, I cancelled that application with zero regrets. Remember: Wh

I have literally told a HR person "I'm not answering this question" and when told to do or cancel, I cancelled that application with zero regrets. Remember: Whenever someone in HR tells you "this is a standard question", immediately assume that means "we can get away with asking this, and it's strictly to our advantage, so we always do".

slt2021 5y ago
whats holding anyone from lying with inflated salary? gotta play the game
- eatYourFood 5y ago
- treeman79 5y ago
  Some people hate lying. Myself included. Makes it awkward at times.
  - slt2021 5y ago
    You should you know that the other side has no problem lying to you just to get what they want from you: 1. We value work life balance 2. We value diversity 3. We care about our people 4. We pay fairly and reward efforts Are one of the biggest lies I have heard from corporate HRs and recruiters
    - vanusa 5y ago
      5. Unlimited PTO
- cherrycherry98 5y ago
  They may ask for pay stubs.
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    Act confused when they do that and ask if this is some sort of scam (because it is). "I've never heard of a job interviewer needing my tax records..." "I heard on the news that job applicants have been victims of identify theft lately, sorry I can't share my personal information like that..."
    - arghnoname 5y ago
      You can choose to do this or to not provide a (false) salary history in the first place, but just understand that typically what you're actually doing is choosing to not accept a particular position. I'm in a position now where I could afford to do this. I've also been in positions in the past where I needed a job and did (and would advise others in similar positions) to just play the game and provide the damn pay stubs. I've also had to pee in cups before that. These sorts of degrading requirements should be banned collectively. It's very hard for an individual who needs a paycheck right quick to personally move the needle on this stuff.
      - pc86 5y ago
        I had to take a drug test once for a development job. This wasn't recently but it was after marijuana had been legalized in several states (but not the one I was in at the time). I reached out to the recruiter who basically said "we have employees who are contracted out to the state. It's a state law that we need to drug test our employees. The law does not require that we report the results or even read them." In general I don't think drug testing for certain jobs is a bad thing. What jobs get tested, how often, and what drugs get tested for is something reasonable people can disagree about.
        boring_twenties 5y ago
        > The law does not require that we report the results or even read them. The best move then would be, of course, be to consume a large amount of marijuana the night before you take the test. If they end up not hiring you because of it, well, do you really want to work for someone who will just straight up lie to your face?
- Fishkins 5y ago
  One of my former coworkers (whom I'll call Doug) had his boss at a previous job more or less do this on his behalf. Doug had been working for a small company that was acquired. The new owner asked the boss of the smaller company what Doug had been making. The old boss reported a number much higher than Doug's actual salary. The new ownership just said "sounds reasonable" and Doug immediately got a massive raise. Doug said he was a little uncomfortable that a lie had been involved, but he didn't feel he could contradict his boss, so he went with it. I'm not exactly sure why the circumstances didn't involve the new employer from actually checking his previous salary, but based on my interaction with Doug I'm sure the story is true.
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    Here is a heart warming story about the same thing: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/05/keith-gillespie-reveals-ferguson-role-in-four-fold-pay-rise-at-newcastle https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/05/keith-gille...
  - bombcar 5y ago
    This is the boss saying “Doug was worth more than I could pay him, here’s what he should be getting” which is actually a very nice thing to do for the new ownership because losing Doug soon after could have been devastating. Likely the small company had felt it couldn’t match the actual salary (and likely tried to make it up in other ways).
- kempbellt 5y ago
  Go one step further and respond with "One million dollars...mmmm" Asking someone what they made at a previous employer seems like a cheap way to try and pay someone as little as possible. A fun snarky response feels justified. Best case, they laugh and offer you a fair salary. Other best case, you move on to interview at a better company.
- jdavis703 5y ago
  It’s not a good idea to lie in the interview process. If you get caught, you jeopardize your chance of landing the job. But you do have ways of presenting a good number for negotiations. For example, you can respond with your total compensation (health insurance subsidies, retirement plan matches, stock-based compensation, transit/parking subsidies, educational stipends, etc). If you’re changing jobs, and the new employer lacks stock or other forms of compensation, it’s totally reasonable to negotiate from a point of what you’d be loosing by switching jobs.
  - slt2021 5y ago
    Agree in general with you that lying is big No in interview process. However, asking salary is a very delicate question that they are not supposed to ask. Making such question a mandatory to get offer is a very shady and questionable practice. I have no problem in telling employer my Desired Salary number (that I know they can pay) as my Current Salary is just another negotiation trick. The ultimate goal is to get both parties to agree and make a deal. By volunteering your true salary you are just giving up your negotiation edge
- maccard 5y ago
  You don't have to play the game. There are plenty of employers out there who do _not_ ask salary history, or will accept "my expected amount is $x" (which is not based on what you're making right now)
  - slt2021 5y ago
    Agree, this is the ideal way. But if my life dependent on one company interview and they ask current salary instead of desired - they will get my desired number as if it was my current
    - pc86 5y ago
      Doesn't lying increase your odds of not getting job if you get caught?
      - DarylZero 5y ago
        Doesn't lying increase your odds of getting job if you not caught?
        maccard 5y ago
        You can be caught about lying in an interview at any time after the fact. If I interviewed someone and found out they flat out lied in response to a question (side note: I don't ask about salary), it would be an instant no/suggestion to end a probationary period from me.
        DarylZero 5y ago
        But I said "if you not caught"
        maccard 5y ago
        why not just lie about your experience and level if you're not going to get caught?
- jjav 5y ago
  Never lie, just don't answer it. If you lie and they verify it later after an offer (which they probably will during background check), you'll be fired for the lie.
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    I can't imagine any company doing this over that question. It cost them a lot of money to hire and start training you. And it isn't even a capability related question like if you lied about your education.
    - jjav 5y ago
      I've seen it happen. A peer team had found an excellent match and extended the offer, which was accepted. Then during the background check there was some discrepancy in details (not salary, but even more trivial stuff) and HR canceled the offer. Management fought it hard but HR stood firm, offer dropped.
- gorbachev 5y ago
  I wouldn't lie with a specific number, but I would answer it with either one of these two options: 1. You're probably more aware of the market conditions than I am and I trust you to make me a competitive offer should we both agree this is a good match 2. I have an embarrassingly high compensation in my current role, and I am not comfortable in divulging it, because very few employers are able to match it and I'm not expecting them to Both answers put the onus on the employer to put out their best offer possible, and any push back is basically a huge red flag.
  - thirdsun 5y ago
    > Both answers put the onus on the employer One might also be a lie, which I think is problematic. If, however, your second reply *isn't* a lie you might as well tell them to signal your worth. However that's a privilege few emploees enjoy. Your first reply is a good option for msot of us.
jjav 5y ago
> I have literally told a HR person "I'm not answering this question" and when told to do or cancel, I cancelled that application with zero regrets. Was this in a location where asking is prohibited? They shouldn't be able to demand and answer "or cancel".
- ThePadawan 5y ago
  The legal status is unclear to me (this was in Switzerland). The tone of the HR person simply suggested "this is a field I have to fill in in this spreadsheet or I can't press the Continue With Application button".
pydry 5y ago
If they're pushy I ask if they want to know so that they can A) lowball me B) because they don't trust their own assessment of my value C) something else (this is a trap: there is no C). One time an HR drone told me it was policy to ask and he didnt know why. I quizzically asked him why as an HR rep he didnt understand the HR policies of the company he worked for. I even asked him if it was policy for HR to not understand HR policy. I kind of wished I'd told him that I'd recorded this phone call for training purposes :/ It's amazing how sweet and polite you can be with this line of questioning and how humiliating their answers will be (because there is no good answer). It's a massive red flag so I doubt ive lost any good jobs this way.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  The reason for asking the question is knowing a candidate's salary history reduces the risk of hiring him. Just like when you buy a house, knowing the house's sale history helps you avoid a big mistake.
  - walshemj 5y ago
    No if you do a Phd at CERN or similar tier 1 institutions the pay there is often very low I found that for starting work at a world leading RnD organisation.
  - diob 5y ago
    This is literally a way to suppress folks from the lower class. They can't afford to jump to FANG or some other great job right out of college in a lot of cases, they need to start making money.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      All the person has to do is stand firm on the salary he feels he deserves.
      - Firadeoclus 5y ago
WalterBright 5y ago
> I have literally told a HR person "I'm not answering this question" What's remarkable is not what you told the person, but the notion that you are compelled to answer any question an employer asks. At least in America, you are not compelled to answer anything you don't want to.
- infogulch 5y ago
  What? "Answer this question or I'm not hiring you." (as long as the question is not one of a lawfully prohibited class of questions) is not coercion it's negotiation. By your reasoning if I went into an interview and flat refused to answer any question they would, what, be forced to hire me? This whole conceptualization is broken.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    Anytime the other party says "or else" it's just a negotiating tactic to see if you're gonna fold. > be forced to hire me? Forced? Of course not. They're not holding a gun on you, and you're not holding a gun on them.
    - infogulch 5y ago
      Yes, and that's why your previous comment made no sense... > you are compelled to answer any question an employer asks Nobody is "compelling" anyone in this situation.
brabel 5y ago
My manager told me that when they interview a candidate, they already know how much they currently earn because companies voluntarily share salary data with each other in my country (in Europe). The recruiters still ask candidates for a salary expectation, but they only use that to know how much of a jump the candidate is expecting, or how much extra they expect to get to actually consider a switch... and because positions are nearly never advertised with a salary range, this makes employers have a huge advantage "negotiating" salaries as they have all the information, the candidate has none (it's tabu to ask other people for their salaries, so I, as most people, am almost completely in the dark regarding whether I am being fairly compensated or not). The only information about salaries I know of is published by the Unions... which is sub-divided into profession, then ranges of years of experience. But because most software developers are not in Unions here, the data they have seems very skewed towards lower pay rates. It's really a nightmare as it seems that when I am looking for a job, all companies pay the same (which you only find out after several interviews to get an actual offer). IT really pisses me off that such an open country as this has this attitude towards salaries. I wish every position had a salary range and an indication of how much you would expect to earn a certain experience. That surely would be beneficial to employees, who would know whether they could expect to get a better salary, but also to employers who actually want to find the best people and are willing to pay more, I think, as they wouldn't need to pay large amounts of money to join this "secret club" where they share salaries with each other, basically colluding to keep salaries low.

slt2021 5y ago

whats holding anyone from lying with inflated salary? gotta play the game

eatYourFood 5y ago
treeman79 5y ago
Some people hate lying. Myself included. Makes it awkward at times.
- slt2021 5y ago
  You should you know that the other side has no problem lying to you just to get what they want from you: 1. We value work life balance 2. We value diversity 3. We care about our people 4. We pay fairly and reward efforts Are one of the biggest lies I have heard from corporate HRs and recruiters
  - vanusa 5y ago
    5. Unlimited PTO
cherrycherry98 5y ago
They may ask for pay stubs.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  Act confused when they do that and ask if this is some sort of scam (because it is). "I've never heard of a job interviewer needing my tax records..." "I heard on the news that job applicants have been victims of identify theft lately, sorry I can't share my personal information like that..."
  - arghnoname 5y ago
    You can choose to do this or to not provide a (false) salary history in the first place, but just understand that typically what you're actually doing is choosing to not accept a particular position. I'm in a position now where I could afford to do this. I've also been in positions in the past where I needed a job and did (and would advise others in similar positions) to just play the game and provide the damn pay stubs. I've also had to pee in cups before that. These sorts of degrading requirements should be banned collectively. It's very hard for an individual who needs a paycheck right quick to personally move the needle on this stuff.
    - pc86 5y ago
      I had to take a drug test once for a development job. This wasn't recently but it was after marijuana had been legalized in several states (but not the one I was in at the time). I reached out to the recruiter who basically said "we have employees who are contracted out to the state. It's a state law that we need to drug test our employees. The law does not require that we report the results or even read them." In general I don't think drug testing for certain jobs is a bad thing. What jobs get tested, how often, and what drugs get tested for is something reasonable people can disagree about.
      - boring_twenties 5y ago
        > The law does not require that we report the results or even read them. The best move then would be, of course, be to consume a large amount of marijuana the night before you take the test. If they end up not hiring you because of it, well, do you really want to work for someone who will just straight up lie to your face?
Fishkins 5y ago
One of my former coworkers (whom I'll call Doug) had his boss at a previous job more or less do this on his behalf. Doug had been working for a small company that was acquired. The new owner asked the boss of the smaller company what Doug had been making. The old boss reported a number much higher than Doug's actual salary. The new ownership just said "sounds reasonable" and Doug immediately got a massive raise. Doug said he was a little uncomfortable that a lie had been involved, but he didn't feel he could contradict his boss, so he went with it. I'm not exactly sure why the circumstances didn't involve the new employer from actually checking his previous salary, but based on my interaction with Doug I'm sure the story is true.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  Here is a heart warming story about the same thing: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/05/keith-gillespie-reveals-ferguson-role-in-four-fold-pay-rise-at-newcastle https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/jul/05/keith-gille...
- bombcar 5y ago
  This is the boss saying “Doug was worth more than I could pay him, here’s what he should be getting” which is actually a very nice thing to do for the new ownership because losing Doug soon after could have been devastating. Likely the small company had felt it couldn’t match the actual salary (and likely tried to make it up in other ways).
kempbellt 5y ago
Go one step further and respond with "One million dollars...mmmm" Asking someone what they made at a previous employer seems like a cheap way to try and pay someone as little as possible. A fun snarky response feels justified. Best case, they laugh and offer you a fair salary. Other best case, you move on to interview at a better company.
jdavis703 5y ago
It’s not a good idea to lie in the interview process. If you get caught, you jeopardize your chance of landing the job. But you do have ways of presenting a good number for negotiations. For example, you can respond with your total compensation (health insurance subsidies, retirement plan matches, stock-based compensation, transit/parking subsidies, educational stipends, etc). If you’re changing jobs, and the new employer lacks stock or other forms of compensation, it’s totally reasonable to negotiate from a point of what you’d be loosing by switching jobs.
- slt2021 5y ago
  Agree in general with you that lying is big No in interview process. However, asking salary is a very delicate question that they are not supposed to ask. Making such question a mandatory to get offer is a very shady and questionable practice. I have no problem in telling employer my Desired Salary number (that I know they can pay) as my Current Salary is just another negotiation trick. The ultimate goal is to get both parties to agree and make a deal. By volunteering your true salary you are just giving up your negotiation edge
maccard 5y ago
You don't have to play the game. There are plenty of employers out there who do _not_ ask salary history, or will accept "my expected amount is $x" (which is not based on what you're making right now)
- slt2021 5y ago
  Agree, this is the ideal way. But if my life dependent on one company interview and they ask current salary instead of desired - they will get my desired number as if it was my current
  - pc86 5y ago
    Doesn't lying increase your odds of not getting job if you get caught?
    - DarylZero 5y ago
      Doesn't lying increase your odds of getting job if you not caught?
      - maccard 5y ago
        You can be caught about lying in an interview at any time after the fact. If I interviewed someone and found out they flat out lied in response to a question (side note: I don't ask about salary), it would be an instant no/suggestion to end a probationary period from me.
        DarylZero 5y ago
        But I said "if you not caught"
        maccard 5y ago
        why not just lie about your experience and level if you're not going to get caught?
jjav 5y ago
Never lie, just don't answer it. If you lie and they verify it later after an offer (which they probably will during background check), you'll be fired for the lie.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  I can't imagine any company doing this over that question. It cost them a lot of money to hire and start training you. And it isn't even a capability related question like if you lied about your education.
  - jjav 5y ago
    I've seen it happen. A peer team had found an excellent match and extended the offer, which was accepted. Then during the background check there was some discrepancy in details (not salary, but even more trivial stuff) and HR canceled the offer. Management fought it hard but HR stood firm, offer dropped.
gorbachev 5y ago
I wouldn't lie with a specific number, but I would answer it with either one of these two options: 1. You're probably more aware of the market conditions than I am and I trust you to make me a competitive offer should we both agree this is a good match 2. I have an embarrassingly high compensation in my current role, and I am not comfortable in divulging it, because very few employers are able to match it and I'm not expecting them to Both answers put the onus on the employer to put out their best offer possible, and any push back is basically a huge red flag.
- thirdsun 5y ago
  > Both answers put the onus on the employer One might also be a lie, which I think is problematic. If, however, your second reply *isn't* a lie you might as well tell them to signal your worth. However that's a privilege few emploees enjoy. Your first reply is a good option for msot of us.

jjav 5y ago

> I have literally told a HR person "I'm not answering this question" and when told to do or cancel, I cancelled that application with zero regrets. Was this in a location where asking is prohibited? They shouldn't be able to demand and answer "or cancel".

ThePadawan 5y ago
The legal status is unclear to me (this was in Switzerland). The tone of the HR person simply suggested "this is a field I have to fill in in this spreadsheet or I can't press the Continue With Application button".

pydry 5y ago

If they're pushy I ask if they want to know so that they can A) lowball me B) because they don't trust their own assessment of my value C) something else (this is a trap: there is no C). One time an HR drone told me it was policy to ask and he didnt know why. I quizzically asked him why as an HR rep he didnt understand the HR policies of the company he worked for. I even asked him if it was policy for HR to not understand HR policy. I kind of wished I'd told him that I'd recorded this phone call for training purposes :/ It's amazing how sweet and polite you can be with this line of questioning and how humiliating their answers will be (because there is no good answer). It's a massive red flag so I doubt ive lost any good jobs this way.

WalterBright 5y ago
The reason for asking the question is knowing a candidate's salary history reduces the risk of hiring him. Just like when you buy a house, knowing the house's sale history helps you avoid a big mistake.
- walshemj 5y ago
  No if you do a Phd at CERN or similar tier 1 institutions the pay there is often very low I found that for starting work at a world leading RnD organisation.
- diob 5y ago
  This is literally a way to suppress folks from the lower class. They can't afford to jump to FANG or some other great job right out of college in a lot of cases, they need to start making money.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    All the person has to do is stand firm on the salary he feels he deserves.
    - Firadeoclus 5y ago

WalterBright 5y ago

> I have literally told a HR person "I'm not answering this question" What's remarkable is not what you told the person, but the notion that you are compelled to answer any question an employer asks. At least in America, you are not compelled to answer anything you don't want to.

infogulch 5y ago
What? "Answer this question or I'm not hiring you." (as long as the question is not one of a lawfully prohibited class of questions) is not coercion it's negotiation. By your reasoning if I went into an interview and flat refused to answer any question they would, what, be forced to hire me? This whole conceptualization is broken.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  Anytime the other party says "or else" it's just a negotiating tactic to see if you're gonna fold. > be forced to hire me? Forced? Of course not. They're not holding a gun on you, and you're not holding a gun on them.
  - infogulch 5y ago
    Yes, and that's why your previous comment made no sense... > you are compelled to answer any question an employer asks Nobody is "compelling" anyone in this situation.

brabel 5y ago

My manager told me that when they interview a candidate, they already know how much they currently earn because companies voluntarily share salary data with each other in my country (in Europe). The recruiters still ask candidates for a salary expectation, but they only use that to know how much of a jump the candidate is expecting, or how much extra they expect to get to actually consider a switch... and because positions are nearly never advertised with a salary range, this makes employers have a huge advantage "negotiating" salaries as they have all the information, the candidate has none (it's tabu to ask other people for their salaries, so I, as most people, am almost completely in the dark regarding whether I am being fairly compensated or not). The only information about salaries I know of is published by the Unions... which is sub-divided into profession, then ranges of years of experience. But because most software developers are not in Unions here, the data they have seems very skewed towards lower pay rates. It's really a nightmare as it seems that when I am looking for a job, all companies pay the same (which you only find out after several interviews to get an actual offer). IT really pisses me off that such an open country as this has this attitude towards salaries. I wish every position had a salary range and an indication of how much you would expect to earn a certain experience. That surely would be beneficial to employees, who would know whether they could expect to get a better salary, but also to employers who actually want to find the best people and are willing to pay more, I think, as they wouldn't need to pay large amounts of money to join this "secret club" where they share salaries with each other, basically colluding to keep salaries low.