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Being Eastern European, I can attest to the fact that this kindness and generosity (poorly abstracted as being passionate about things) has a flip side, and you

Being Eastern European, I can attest to the fact that this kindness and generosity (poorly abstracted as being passionate about things) has a flip side, and you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment.

nmfisher 5y ago
Can you elaborate?
- thejackgoode 5y ago
  For example, ex-nomadic and Caucasian “honor culture” is linked to necessity of trust in regions with predominant animal husbandry. If your cattle gets stolen before winter, you die of hunger. That’s why honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin — you can’t afford losing trust. Robert Sapolsky gave a lecture about it.
  - Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
    While i can't make absolute statements of what he may or may not have said in every lecture he ever gave, i doubt Sapolsky would claim that honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin. In "Behave The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst" Sapolsky differentiates "honor killings" as inwards violence, whose victims are usually young women, from "retribution" against animal thieves, and links it to social power structures in families and to religious laws, not ethnicity or nomadic origins.
    - thejackgoode 5y ago
      Here’s a piece that I found, I vaguely remember there was more in that lecture on the topic: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz3hBuq-Huk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz3hBuq-Huk While it’s possible to differentiate these two things like you mentioned, if you look at honor as a concept, it’s useful function is about curbing higher cost of distrust. And that Sapolsky does explain in the linked video.
      - Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
        Well Sapolsky sure seems to love to make dubious absolute statements and oversimplifications in his lectures, and yet he still says that pastoral nomadic honor cultures foster strict rules of hospitality, which is not the same as hospitality in and of itself, even if it can be an amplyfiyng effect. I would be more inclined to agree that "strict rules (of hospitality)" and "violent enforcement (of subservience)" are flip sides of a coin. Note that "honor killing" is a very loaded term and quite different from domestic violence and retribution.
  - nmfisher 5y ago
    Interesting. Does that mean there's a low level of petty crimes like theft?
    - unionpivo 5y ago
      yes
patrec 5y ago
> you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment. How high is the risk, if you make an effort to behave well?
- thejackgoode 5y ago
  Low, but it’s quite a skill. Referenced here “bald and bankrupt” is an expert in “behaving well”, I am still amazed by his skills to be honest
  - kingofkyiv 5y ago
    That is only on camera. He has been kicked off almost every other platform except YouTube. Visa, Uber, PayPal among others all kicked him off. Off camera he has been exposed as a debased sexual predator. Anyone interested can find the whole drama exposing him by searching reddit, his name, and similar terms to what I discussed.
    - MathCodeLove 5y ago
      I'm not interested one way or another but if you're going to make claims this extreme the least you can do is provide a link to the evidence yourself. Let's leave making unsubstantiated, outrageous statements to the other social media platforms that do it best.
      - solarhoma 5y ago
        These are just a few posts digging into his past. There are plenty more to research as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/internetdrama/comments/d4zo17/1_million_subscriber_youtuber_bald_bankrupt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/internetdrama/comments/d4zo17/1_mil... https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldAndBaldrDossier/comments/judnlm/is_bald_bankrupt_really_a_sex_tourist_and_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldAndBaldrDossier/comments/judnlm...
        kingofkyiv 5y ago
glofish 5y ago
This is a really good point, when an American (or other rich Westerner) shows up in remote area, they are treated like a king, basically you are treated as people treat ridiculously good looking and popular people around them that they want to be around, that generosity you feel is nothing more than being popular and center of attention start living there, all of a sudden that generosity is not so obvious, families are at each other's throats for that bushel of corn one guys grandfather stole from the other fifty years ago, random shit gets stolen, the whole garden is trampled because someone is stealing a few of your tomatoes, trash is thrown over your yard because the neighbor wants to "save" on trash collection fees, people cut ahead of you around in the queues, people have untrained dangerous dogs that are a menace to the whole community ... etc
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >start living there, all of a sudden that generosity is not so obvious, families are at each other's throats for that bushel of corn one guys grandfather stole from the other fifty years ago, random shit gets stolen, the garden is trampled, trash is thrown over your yard because the neighbor wants to "save" on trash collection fees, people cut ahead of you around in the queues, So basically all the same petty BS that you get in the urbanized inner suburbs HN raves about without the bickering being laundered through lawyers and local officials to give it a veneer of acceptability? Humans gonna human.
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    Yeah, my Berkeley neighbor has been on my case for that bushel of corn for the last two decades
    - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
      I'm sure if you borrowed some power tool and half broke it he'd be more than happy to call the city on you every time you violate one of the million rules for the next few decades. Of course nobody is fighting over corn but there is no shortage of fairly obvious parallels.

nmfisher 5y ago

Can you elaborate?

thejackgoode 5y ago
For example, ex-nomadic and Caucasian “honor culture” is linked to necessity of trust in regions with predominant animal husbandry. If your cattle gets stolen before winter, you die of hunger. That’s why honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin — you can’t afford losing trust. Robert Sapolsky gave a lecture about it.
- Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
  While i can't make absolute statements of what he may or may not have said in every lecture he ever gave, i doubt Sapolsky would claim that honor killings and hospitality are the flip sides of the same coin. In "Behave The Biology of Humans at Our Best and Worst" Sapolsky differentiates "honor killings" as inwards violence, whose victims are usually young women, from "retribution" against animal thieves, and links it to social power structures in families and to religious laws, not ethnicity or nomadic origins.
  - thejackgoode 5y ago
    Here’s a piece that I found, I vaguely remember there was more in that lecture on the topic: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz3hBuq-Huk https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz3hBuq-Huk While it’s possible to differentiate these two things like you mentioned, if you look at honor as a concept, it’s useful function is about curbing higher cost of distrust. And that Sapolsky does explain in the linked video.
    - Jon_Lowtek 5y ago
      Well Sapolsky sure seems to love to make dubious absolute statements and oversimplifications in his lectures, and yet he still says that pastoral nomadic honor cultures foster strict rules of hospitality, which is not the same as hospitality in and of itself, even if it can be an amplyfiyng effect. I would be more inclined to agree that "strict rules (of hospitality)" and "violent enforcement (of subservience)" are flip sides of a coin. Note that "honor killing" is a very loaded term and quite different from domestic violence and retribution.
- nmfisher 5y ago
  Interesting. Does that mean there's a low level of petty crimes like theft?
  - unionpivo 5y ago
    yes

patrec 5y ago

> you don’t want to be on the opposite side of this treatment. How high is the risk, if you make an effort to behave well?

thejackgoode 5y ago
Low, but it’s quite a skill. Referenced here “bald and bankrupt” is an expert in “behaving well”, I am still amazed by his skills to be honest
- kingofkyiv 5y ago
  That is only on camera. He has been kicked off almost every other platform except YouTube. Visa, Uber, PayPal among others all kicked him off. Off camera he has been exposed as a debased sexual predator. Anyone interested can find the whole drama exposing him by searching reddit, his name, and similar terms to what I discussed.
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    I'm not interested one way or another but if you're going to make claims this extreme the least you can do is provide a link to the evidence yourself. Let's leave making unsubstantiated, outrageous statements to the other social media platforms that do it best.
    - solarhoma 5y ago
      These are just a few posts digging into his past. There are plenty more to research as well. https://www.reddit.com/r/internetdrama/comments/d4zo17/1_million_subscriber_youtuber_bald_bankrupt/ https://www.reddit.com/r/internetdrama/comments/d4zo17/1_mil... https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldAndBaldrDossier/comments/judnlm/is_bald_bankrupt_really_a_sex_tourist_and_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldAndBaldrDossier/comments/judnlm...
      - kingofkyiv 5y ago

glofish 5y ago

This is a really good point, when an American (or other rich Westerner) shows up in remote area, they are treated like a king, basically you are treated as people treat ridiculously good looking and popular people around them that they want to be around, that generosity you feel is nothing more than being popular and center of attention start living there, all of a sudden that generosity is not so obvious, families are at each other's throats for that bushel of corn one guys grandfather stole from the other fifty years ago, random shit gets stolen, the whole garden is trampled because someone is stealing a few of your tomatoes, trash is thrown over your yard because the neighbor wants to "save" on trash collection fees, people cut ahead of you around in the queues, people have untrained dangerous dogs that are a menace to the whole community ... etc

throwaway0a5e 5y ago
>start living there, all of a sudden that generosity is not so obvious, families are at each other's throats for that bushel of corn one guys grandfather stole from the other fifty years ago, random shit gets stolen, the garden is trampled, trash is thrown over your yard because the neighbor wants to "save" on trash collection fees, people cut ahead of you around in the queues, So basically all the same petty BS that you get in the urbanized inner suburbs HN raves about without the bickering being laundered through lawyers and local officials to give it a veneer of acceptability? Humans gonna human.
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  Yeah, my Berkeley neighbor has been on my case for that bushel of corn for the last two decades
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    I'm sure if you borrowed some power tool and half broke it he'd be more than happy to call the city on you every time you violate one of the million rules for the next few decades. Of course nobody is fighting over corn but there is no shortage of fairly obvious parallels.