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Kazakh elite keeps its money in western banks, flies western planes to western capitals and owns land and property in top western locations. Same for Russian el

Kazakh elite keeps its money in western banks, flies western planes to western capitals and owns land and property in top western locations. Same for Russian elite. In the Cold War, dealing with Soviets was unthinkable. Now, the West is complacent, there is even a term for it, Schröderizatsiya. See this opinion piece by the former Estonian president [1]. [1] https://news.err.ee/1608362130/toomas-hendrik-ilves-alexei-navalny-and-the-west-s-schroderizatsiya https://news.err.ee/1608362130/toomas-hendrik-ilves-alexei-n...

mlindner 5y ago
> Kazakh elite keeps its money in western banks, flies western planes to western capitals and owns land and property in top western locations. Same for Russian elite. So does the Russian elite as you say, even Putin himself. The US's currency is the reserve currency of the world and the currency most commerce is done in so western banks are used. They also are much more stable than banks in their own countries where other elites could steal their money. This doesn't mean that the US or the west is somehow controlling their countries.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Don’t bother wasting your time. These trolls just want to make you hate yourself and your country. Of course it’s your fault comrade, if you didn’t buy caviar from Russia then they wouldn’t have to invade Ukraine to feed the workers who make the caviar. It’s always your fault nobody else’s. The goal with these sorts of comments is to try and get liberal democracies to stop engaging in the rest of the world. If you keep getting told it’s your fault eventually you say “fine I’m done” and then that’s when they win.
  - jessaustin 5y ago
    Is there some sense in which this is not a "conspiracy theory"?
    - spitfire 5y ago
      > Is there some sense in which this is not a "conspiracy theory Yes, in the sense that Aleksander Dugins foundations of geopolitics exists and is taught in military schools in Russia. It proposes - among other tactics, exactly this approach. Splitting hairs, gaslighting and exhaustion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
      - jessaustin 5y ago
        You have colored in some details, but it's still a theory about a secret project of mysterious Russians and Russia sympathizers, only now they're allied with some Russian version of Alex Jones. It's worth noting that this special book was published during the reign of Yeltsin, a Clinton puppet installed and protected by various Western agencies. That could be a reason there is some consideration of similar actions in the opposite direction.
mc32 5y ago
What’s the alternative, Sanctions? What about China, should they be sanctioned too? [Many make the claim that sanctions mostly affect civilians so for example are against Iran Sanctions, etc.]
- pjc50 5y ago
  Well, yes. Hence the Magnitsky Act. Although really the question of banking money from unacceptable foreigners is an old one, unresolved throughout the 20th century. It's too convenient for the West to really give up on, so a short list is maintained of the "definitely unacceptable", but there's no systematic criteria for what "unacceptable" really is. It's quite clear from the lack of UK response to the Salisbury poisonings that the UK is financially compromised into indifference, for example.
- nradov 5y ago
  Yes some sanctions would be a good idea. We hoped that opening up trade with Russia and China would help them transform into free-market democracies. But that approach has failed so it's time to return to the Cold War policy of containment. Work with our asked to keep our adversaries as weak and isolated as possible. Besides sanctions, we should also seek to undermine and delegitimize those governments by supporting dissident movements and other covert actions.
- everybodyknows 5y ago
  Better than sanctions: Enforcement of existing anti-money laundering laws. https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/new-icij-investigation-exposes-rogue-offshore-industry/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/new-icij-i... https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-international-anti-money-laundering-norms-are-frustrating-iran-sanctions-relief https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-international-anti-money-lau... Enforcement of course is a perpetual cat-and-mouse game in which the cats are underfunded and the mice have money to burn.

mlindner 5y ago

> Kazakh elite keeps its money in western banks, flies western planes to western capitals and owns land and property in top western locations. Same for Russian elite. So does the Russian elite as you say, even Putin himself. The US's currency is the reserve currency of the world and the currency most commerce is done in so western banks are used. They also are much more stable than banks in their own countries where other elites could steal their money. This doesn't mean that the US or the west is somehow controlling their countries.

ericmay 5y ago
Don’t bother wasting your time. These trolls just want to make you hate yourself and your country. Of course it’s your fault comrade, if you didn’t buy caviar from Russia then they wouldn’t have to invade Ukraine to feed the workers who make the caviar. It’s always your fault nobody else’s. The goal with these sorts of comments is to try and get liberal democracies to stop engaging in the rest of the world. If you keep getting told it’s your fault eventually you say “fine I’m done” and then that’s when they win.
- jessaustin 5y ago
  Is there some sense in which this is not a "conspiracy theory"?
  - spitfire 5y ago
    > Is there some sense in which this is not a "conspiracy theory Yes, in the sense that Aleksander Dugins foundations of geopolitics exists and is taught in military schools in Russia. It proposes - among other tactics, exactly this approach. Splitting hairs, gaslighting and exhaustion. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics
    - jessaustin 5y ago
      You have colored in some details, but it's still a theory about a secret project of mysterious Russians and Russia sympathizers, only now they're allied with some Russian version of Alex Jones. It's worth noting that this special book was published during the reign of Yeltsin, a Clinton puppet installed and protected by various Western agencies. That could be a reason there is some consideration of similar actions in the opposite direction.

mc32 5y ago

What’s the alternative, Sanctions? What about China, should they be sanctioned too? [Many make the claim that sanctions mostly affect civilians so for example are against Iran Sanctions, etc.]

pjc50 5y ago
Well, yes. Hence the Magnitsky Act. Although really the question of banking money from unacceptable foreigners is an old one, unresolved throughout the 20th century. It's too convenient for the West to really give up on, so a short list is maintained of the "definitely unacceptable", but there's no systematic criteria for what "unacceptable" really is. It's quite clear from the lack of UK response to the Salisbury poisonings that the UK is financially compromised into indifference, for example.
nradov 5y ago
Yes some sanctions would be a good idea. We hoped that opening up trade with Russia and China would help them transform into free-market democracies. But that approach has failed so it's time to return to the Cold War policy of containment. Work with our asked to keep our adversaries as weak and isolated as possible. Besides sanctions, we should also seek to undermine and delegitimize those governments by supporting dissident movements and other covert actions.
everybodyknows 5y ago
Better than sanctions: Enforcement of existing anti-money laundering laws. https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/new-icij-investigation-exposes-rogue-offshore-industry/ https://www.icij.org/investigations/panama-papers/new-icij-i... https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-international-anti-money-laundering-norms-are-frustrating-iran-sanctions-relief https://www.lawfareblog.com/how-international-anti-money-lau... Enforcement of course is a perpetual cat-and-mouse game in which the cats are underfunded and the mice have money to burn.