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One of the unpleasant things about the recent pandemic surge has been the opportunistic article-writing to relitigate controversial issues like school closures,

by lsy 5y ago

One of the unpleasant things about the recent pandemic surge has been the opportunistic article-writing to relitigate controversial issues like school closures, which had, with the previous numbers, become a thing of the past, with broad agreement across the political spectrum that they were no longer necessary. Look at the trajectory of today's numbers. The schools are not going to be closed for long. But to read these articles, you'd think educators are planning to keep kids at home for the rest of their lives, rather than until the massive, unprecedented surge subsides. (You'd also think that the US compulsory schooling system was a biologically essential part of human development rather than an early-1900s social invention). "Living with COVID" doesn't mean "ignoring COVID", and I'd be interested to see viewpoints that are a bit less extreme and more open to the idea that living with a cyclic (and still-deadly) coronavirus requires seasonal adjustments to reality on the ground rather than unconditionally charging ahead with no precautions.

desireco42 5y ago
Totally with you. I have 3 kids, they love being online and they love going to school. Online has distinct advantage that they are instantly home and get to eat home food etc. Like the author, we are flexible and home. I can't say everything was perfect. My main goal is for none of us to get Covid, if we endured this much, I really don't need it now. There is 5 of us, if anyone gets it, everybody will get it, vaccines as you know, will not help you except keep you from dying. I think this is huge opportunity, largely wasted, to actually figure out a good way to learn online. Also, I think that most of those who complain and are working from home, they simply don't want their kids home.
- nradov 5y ago
  You will all get Covid eventually. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646
  - lsy 5y ago
    This isn't a helpful or honestly very nice comment, considering you don't know the commenter's situation or risk profile. The article you linked even makes the point that delaying onset of Covid until there are more vaccines and therapeutics is ideal. Even at high R0 with no precautions, large numbers of people never get an endemic disease, due to herd immunity. And for people with kids, it's very reasonable to try to delay onset until pediatric vaccines and therapeutics are available. The fact that Covid will become endemic is not a reason to abandon all precautions.
    - nradov 5y ago
      The Delta and Omicron variants are so contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity. Everyone will eventually be infected. Fortunately the vaccines and other therapies are quite effective at preventing deaths. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu... The risk to healthy children is virtually zero. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.30.21267048v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.30.21267048v...
gandalfgeek 5y ago
Unless exit criteria and offramps for restrictions are explicitly specified, they are essentially saying they want to do this forever. They're just passing the buck to some other govt agency to tell them when it's ok to exit.
- lsy 5y ago
  Maybe we come back to this after the Omicron wave has subsided and see whether your fear has been realized or whether the schools have reopened? I'm not really sure what the cause for concern about indefinite restrictions is here. If a school calls a snow day, do people demand exit criteria and offramps, just in case they decide to keep the schools closed through the summer?
  - refurb 5y ago
    No, it's the constantly changing messages. It's at the point where nobody believes anything the politicans say. "Two week to bend the curve" - 2020 "Get the vaccine and you won't get Covid" - 2021 "The vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel, we just need 80%+ to hit herd immunity" - 2021 Now we're two full years into this and the restrictions are the same or worse than when Covid first hit. Huh?
- eli 5y ago
  No. Not defining metrics in advance isn't saying it will go on forever. Not in a rapidly evolving pandemic. A lot of localities that did choose metrics-driven approaches months or years ago regretted it because they choose transmission rate or community spread as the primary driver. That number is currently through the roof, implying the most severe measures are needed for the foreseeable future. I often go for a run without a predefined route, but that doesn't mean I want to run forever.

by lsy 5y ago

desireco42 5y ago

Totally with you. I have 3 kids, they love being online and they love going to school. Online has distinct advantage that they are instantly home and get to eat home food etc. Like the author, we are flexible and home. I can't say everything was perfect. My main goal is for none of us to get Covid, if we endured this much, I really don't need it now. There is 5 of us, if anyone gets it, everybody will get it, vaccines as you know, will not help you except keep you from dying. I think this is huge opportunity, largely wasted, to actually figure out a good way to learn online. Also, I think that most of those who complain and are working from home, they simply don't want their kids home.

nradov 5y ago
You will all get Covid eventually. https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646 https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/94646
- lsy 5y ago
  This isn't a helpful or honestly very nice comment, considering you don't know the commenter's situation or risk profile. The article you linked even makes the point that delaying onset of Covid until there are more vaccines and therapeutics is ideal. Even at high R0 with no precautions, large numbers of people never get an endemic disease, due to herd immunity. And for people with kids, it's very reasonable to try to delay onset until pediatric vaccines and therapeutics are available. The fact that Covid will become endemic is not a reason to abandon all precautions.
  - nradov 5y ago
    The Delta and Omicron variants are so contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity. Everyone will eventually be infected. Fortunately the vaccines and other therapies are quite effective at preventing deaths. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu... The risk to healthy children is virtually zero. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.30.21267048v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.11.30.21267048v...

gandalfgeek 5y ago

Unless exit criteria and offramps for restrictions are explicitly specified, they are essentially saying they want to do this forever. They're just passing the buck to some other govt agency to tell them when it's ok to exit.

lsy 5y ago
Maybe we come back to this after the Omicron wave has subsided and see whether your fear has been realized or whether the schools have reopened? I'm not really sure what the cause for concern about indefinite restrictions is here. If a school calls a snow day, do people demand exit criteria and offramps, just in case they decide to keep the schools closed through the summer?
- refurb 5y ago
  No, it's the constantly changing messages. It's at the point where nobody believes anything the politicans say. "Two week to bend the curve" - 2020 "Get the vaccine and you won't get Covid" - 2021 "The vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel, we just need 80%+ to hit herd immunity" - 2021 Now we're two full years into this and the restrictions are the same or worse than when Covid first hit. Huh?
eli 5y ago
No. Not defining metrics in advance isn't saying it will go on forever. Not in a rapidly evolving pandemic. A lot of localities that did choose metrics-driven approaches months or years ago regretted it because they choose transmission rate or community spread as the primary driver. That number is currently through the roof, implying the most severe measures are needed for the foreseeable future. I often go for a run without a predefined route, but that doesn't mean I want to run forever.