5 ms·

Care to share sources corroborating any of this? All I can find is anonymous stuff on a website called http://techrights.org/ http://techrights.org/ which has

Care to share sources corroborating any of this? All I can find is anonymous stuff on a website called http://techrights.org/ http://techrights.org/ which has a series of articles trying to in some way associate Nat with [redacted]'s domestic violence. The "best friend" claim seems to have started with a weird "teaser" post on techrights.org wherein an anonymous source claims that "many others" can confirm that [redacted] was close to Nat. That of course doesn't even come close to establishing that either of them considers the other their "best friend", if it's trustworthy to begin with. Then techrights.org cites their own teaser in other posts as saying that [redacted] claims Nat is his best friend (not true, or at least not supported by the source). Now you are, I guess, using that as your basis to claim that they ARE in fact best friends. I realise it's possible you're entirely honest and have sources I don't, but this looks like a pretty cynical smear job to me, especially given that none of the sources I've managed to find asserting that the two were close date from before this domestic abuse case. I don't have any insider knowledge, but the superficial appearance of all this is that a handful of activists with something against Nat have cooked up this "best friend" narrative for some reason, gradually escalating the claim each time they cite each other, and ultimately it all hinges on an anonymous source saying that other anonymous sources say that the two were close once.

betsydupuis 5y ago
Alright, sure. I've been talking about this relationship with Nat for over a year now. It's been confirmed by Miguel de Icaza to me personally. Alex also assaulted me as well during a short, but extremely abusive relationship. Alex mentioned his relationship with Nat several times and used it to threaten me on multiple occasions. Alex attending Nat's destination wedding in Italy. It's that's not close, I don't know what is.
- splch 5y ago
  Again, any sources that aren't just word of mouth?
  - _o68p 5y ago
    http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedley.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedle... How about their podcast together?
  - throwoutway 5y ago
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- laumars 5y ago
  That certainly explains the personal interest you have in this case. I hope your situation has improved and any mental scares can heal with time :) Playing devils advocate for one moment: I don’t always agree with friends abandoning other friends when they turn out to be bad people. If a person stands any chance of rehabilitation they need people who are willing to stand by them. This doesn’t mean those friends support their actions - in fact they should be honest about what actions are inexcusable. But as a society we are too quick to claim guilt by association without understanding what their relationship is like and whether that friendship is helping to reform individuals who have been (understandably) abandoned by everyone else around them. I’m not making direct commentary on Alex and Nat though as I don’t know them nor their relationship. I’m just making a generalised observation.
  - betsydupuis 5y ago
    Nat hasn't made any attempts to get Alex rehabilitation for this issue.
    - laumars 5y ago
      > Nat hasn't made any attempts to get Alex rehabilitation for this issue. You might be right and remember my post wasn’t commenting on Nat and Alex specifically. However, and mean this with the greatest of respect to yourself, even though you’ve been involved with Alex you still don’t truly know how Alex and Nat communicate in private between just the two of them. The reason I commented is because I’ve recently seen this same kind of mob mentality happen against some genuinely nice people who have kept their association because they were sincerely trying to rehabilitate others. So they didn’t deserve guilt by association. But their cases were different to these ones. Anyhow I’m not here to defend Nat nor Alex (I don’t even know them) and this is a understandably going to be a highly emotionally charged subject so I’ll refrain from further comments because sometimes my well intentioned remarks can come across poor (totally my issue. I’m working on fixing it). I do truly wish you happiness in any future relationships and hope this nightmare you’ve been through doesn’t leave any scares (emotional or physical) that cannot heal.
      - deleted 5y ago
itp 5y ago
I can't speak to any current events, but I was an employee of Ximian, formerly Helix Code, from 2000 to 2004. I also lived with [name redacted] for a year around 2001 and/or 2002, when we lived just down the street from Nat. Nat and [name redacted] were always exceptionally close, which I always found confusing. [name redacted] was intense, passionate, charismatic, but also had troubled and troubling relationships with people, _particularly_ women. [name redacted] was, if I remember correctly, let go from Ximian when he failed to arrive to work every day by noon for one week straight (we lived a 5 to 10 minute walk from the office). Even after [name redacted] was let go, he and Nat remained fast friends.
- betsydupuis 5y ago
  Thank you for this.
- _o68p 5y ago
  The lateness thing is very spot on. I have text messages of him accusing me on intentionally trying to hurt his feelings because I didn't want to sit around for hours waiting for him in a public place alone so he could finish at the gym because he "forgot" we were supposed to meet up. This was the beginning of a long chain of emotionally abusive, controlling, and manipulative behaviors.
  - Mandatum 5y ago
    Did you consult a lawyer before posting this? Given how litigious some folk in SV are, I'd be wary. Microsoft doesn't tend to help fund defamation suits, they're not quite Oracle, but you never know. Also.. This seems to have disappeared from the front page.
    - _o68p 5y ago
      I'm aware of my rights. In regards to the front-page, there's a lot of downvotes. Went from 160 upvotes to 121 in a matter of minutes. I suspect bots.
truffdog 5y ago
Nat and Alex worked together at Ximian when they were younger, so it's plausible. People make friends at tiny startups where everyone is very young. You can confirm that by Google their names and 'ximian'.
- betsydupuis 5y ago
  They had a podcast together called "Hacker Medley." I'm not sure what is a stronger case for male bonding than starting a podcast together.
betsydupuis 5y ago
Starting a podcast together screams male bonding to me http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedley.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedle...

betsydupuis 5y ago

Alright, sure. I've been talking about this relationship with Nat for over a year now. It's been confirmed by Miguel de Icaza to me personally. Alex also assaulted me as well during a short, but extremely abusive relationship. Alex mentioned his relationship with Nat several times and used it to threaten me on multiple occasions. Alex attending Nat's destination wedding in Italy. It's that's not close, I don't know what is.

splch 5y ago
Again, any sources that aren't just word of mouth?
- _o68p 5y ago
  http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedley.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedle... How about their podcast together?
- throwoutway 5y ago
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
laumars 5y ago
That certainly explains the personal interest you have in this case. I hope your situation has improved and any mental scares can heal with time :) Playing devils advocate for one moment: I don’t always agree with friends abandoning other friends when they turn out to be bad people. If a person stands any chance of rehabilitation they need people who are willing to stand by them. This doesn’t mean those friends support their actions - in fact they should be honest about what actions are inexcusable. But as a society we are too quick to claim guilt by association without understanding what their relationship is like and whether that friendship is helping to reform individuals who have been (understandably) abandoned by everyone else around them. I’m not making direct commentary on Alex and Nat though as I don’t know them nor their relationship. I’m just making a generalised observation.
- betsydupuis 5y ago
  Nat hasn't made any attempts to get Alex rehabilitation for this issue.
  - laumars 5y ago
    > Nat hasn't made any attempts to get Alex rehabilitation for this issue. You might be right and remember my post wasn’t commenting on Nat and Alex specifically. However, and mean this with the greatest of respect to yourself, even though you’ve been involved with Alex you still don’t truly know how Alex and Nat communicate in private between just the two of them. The reason I commented is because I’ve recently seen this same kind of mob mentality happen against some genuinely nice people who have kept their association because they were sincerely trying to rehabilitate others. So they didn’t deserve guilt by association. But their cases were different to these ones. Anyhow I’m not here to defend Nat nor Alex (I don’t even know them) and this is a understandably going to be a highly emotionally charged subject so I’ll refrain from further comments because sometimes my well intentioned remarks can come across poor (totally my issue. I’m working on fixing it). I do truly wish you happiness in any future relationships and hope this nightmare you’ve been through doesn’t leave any scares (emotional or physical) that cannot heal.
    - deleted 5y ago

itp 5y ago

I can't speak to any current events, but I was an employee of Ximian, formerly Helix Code, from 2000 to 2004. I also lived with [name redacted] for a year around 2001 and/or 2002, when we lived just down the street from Nat. Nat and [name redacted] were always exceptionally close, which I always found confusing. [name redacted] was intense, passionate, charismatic, but also had troubled and troubling relationships with people, _particularly_ women. [name redacted] was, if I remember correctly, let go from Ximian when he failed to arrive to work every day by noon for one week straight (we lived a 5 to 10 minute walk from the office). Even after [name redacted] was let go, he and Nat remained fast friends.

betsydupuis 5y ago
Thank you for this.
_o68p 5y ago
The lateness thing is very spot on. I have text messages of him accusing me on intentionally trying to hurt his feelings because I didn't want to sit around for hours waiting for him in a public place alone so he could finish at the gym because he "forgot" we were supposed to meet up. This was the beginning of a long chain of emotionally abusive, controlling, and manipulative behaviors.
- Mandatum 5y ago
  Did you consult a lawyer before posting this? Given how litigious some folk in SV are, I'd be wary. Microsoft doesn't tend to help fund defamation suits, they're not quite Oracle, but you never know. Also.. This seems to have disappeared from the front page.
  - _o68p 5y ago
    I'm aware of my rights. In regards to the front-page, there's a lot of downvotes. Went from 160 upvotes to 121 in a matter of minutes. I suspect bots.

truffdog 5y ago

Nat and Alex worked together at Ximian when they were younger, so it's plausible. People make friends at tiny startups where everyone is very young. You can confirm that by Google their names and 'ximian'.

betsydupuis 5y ago
They had a podcast together called "Hacker Medley." I'm not sure what is a stronger case for male bonding than starting a podcast together.

betsydupuis 5y ago

Starting a podcast together screams male bonding to me http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedley.org/ http://web.archive.org/web/20100216070208/http://hackermedle...