5 ms·

It is easy to change, it a dropdown in Safari settings, very easy to find. I agree though that Google pays Apple billions to be the default stinks. Even though

by bni 5y ago

It is easy to change, it a dropdown in Safari settings, very easy to find. I agree though that Google pays Apple billions to be the default stinks. Even though in this case Apple greed aligns perfectly with user expectation.

amelius 5y ago
It still makes me wonder: if Apple had their own search engine, would they be allowed to not have the option to change it?
- onion2k 5y ago
  That would be a very clear anti-trust violation where they would be abusing position in the OS market to influence their position in the search market.
  - amelius 5y ago
    Ok, wouldn't there be the same problem with app stores then?
  - izacus 5y ago
    Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. So excluding and removing healthy market competition is completely OK in that respect. Or so we're told.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. Even that deflection is incorrect. When it comes to the mobile market in the US, Apple has over 60% of the market, and Google has the rest. When it comes to the mobile app distribution market, they're responsible for 100% more sales than Google is, and both companies make up that entire market. In the US, Apple is the most used mobile and mobile app provider. And even if they weren't, they have a duopoly with Google in a dozen or more markets.
  - ahtihn 5y ago
    How is that different to what they're doing with browsers? Last time I checked, you can't ship your own browser/js engine on iOS
    - onion2k 5y ago
      It's exactly the same. I have no idea how they're able to get away with it.
      - stickfigure 5y ago
        Perhaps your understanding of antitrust law is flawed.
        onion2k 5y ago
        I hope it is, because the alternative is that they're being allowed to get away with something that's against the law, bad for the free market, and anti-consumer.
        labcomputer 5y ago
        Really? One of the few things keeping the creeping Google Chrome monopoly in check is bad for the consumer and bad for the market? I, for one, am happy that Google isn't able to unilaterally dictate the next generation of web standards.
        tshaddox 5y ago
        Almost any time anyone brings up accusations of anticompetitive behavior against Apple for the iOS ecosystem, notice that what they’re saying is “in order to make the smartphone market more competitive and give customers more choice, Apple should be forced to make their smartphone offerings less distinguishable from Android, the only other smartphone ecosystem.”
        5y ago
  - threeseed 5y ago
    That only applies when you dealing with markets with an absence of competition. For example, Microsoft had ~95% market share of the entire computing market when they tried to embrace and extinguish Netscape. It's why it was perfectly fine for Google to use its web services to influence competition within the Android OS market.
    - onion2k 5y ago
      Anti-trust law is not simple. In the case of MSFT and IE they were accused under the protects of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act[1] of using their monopoly position (Windows) to reduce consumer choice (bundling IE without letting users pick a different option). In the case of Apple and Google, it's more likely to fall under the Clayton Antitrust Act[2] as it's a matter of corporations collaborating to reduce consumer choice (but I am not a lawyer, and not even American, so I could be waaaay off the mark here.) [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sherman-antiturst-act.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sherman-antiturst-act.a... [2] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/clayton-antitrust-act.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/clayton-antitrust-act.a...
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > That only applies when you dealing with markets with an absence of competition. This is incorrect. From the FTC[1]: > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...
- threeseed 5y ago
  a) Apple has had their own search engine for years now. It powers Safari Suggestions. b) They don't have an option to change it. c) If they were to extend its use for all searches then I can't imagine there would be an issue. And if there was it would likely be across the entire mobile search industry.
  - WanderPanda 5y ago
    addition to a): The quality of its results is laughably bad
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Nextgrid 5y ago
The list is hardcoded to a handful of options (all of which I suspect of paying Apple, except maybe DuckDuckGo) with no way to add your own.
14 5y ago
It only allows, on my phone anyways, google bing yahoo and DuckDuckGo. I’m not sure if this changes with region but I don’t see Yandex or Baidu or a few other less popular ones. So why doesn’t apple just allow any engine? So yes it is easy to change for a few select engines. If you jailbreak you can add others.

by bni 5y ago

amelius 5y ago

It still makes me wonder: if Apple had their own search engine, would they be allowed to not have the option to change it?

onion2k 5y ago
That would be a very clear anti-trust violation where they would be abusing position in the OS market to influence their position in the search market.
- amelius 5y ago
  Ok, wouldn't there be the same problem with app stores then?
- izacus 5y ago
  Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. So excluding and removing healthy market competition is completely OK in that respect. Or so we're told.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. Even that deflection is incorrect. When it comes to the mobile market in the US, Apple has over 60% of the market, and Google has the rest. When it comes to the mobile app distribution market, they're responsible for 100% more sales than Google is, and both companies make up that entire market. In the US, Apple is the most used mobile and mobile app provider. And even if they weren't, they have a duopoly with Google in a dozen or more markets.
- ahtihn 5y ago
  How is that different to what they're doing with browsers? Last time I checked, you can't ship your own browser/js engine on iOS
  - onion2k 5y ago
    It's exactly the same. I have no idea how they're able to get away with it.
    - stickfigure 5y ago
      Perhaps your understanding of antitrust law is flawed.
      - onion2k 5y ago
        I hope it is, because the alternative is that they're being allowed to get away with something that's against the law, bad for the free market, and anti-consumer.
        labcomputer 5y ago
        Really? One of the few things keeping the creeping Google Chrome monopoly in check is bad for the consumer and bad for the market? I, for one, am happy that Google isn't able to unilaterally dictate the next generation of web standards.
        tshaddox 5y ago
        Almost any time anyone brings up accusations of anticompetitive behavior against Apple for the iOS ecosystem, notice that what they’re saying is “in order to make the smartphone market more competitive and give customers more choice, Apple should be forced to make their smartphone offerings less distinguishable from Android, the only other smartphone ecosystem.”
        5y ago
- threeseed 5y ago
  That only applies when you dealing with markets with an absence of competition. For example, Microsoft had ~95% market share of the entire computing market when they tried to embrace and extinguish Netscape. It's why it was perfectly fine for Google to use its web services to influence competition within the Android OS market.
  - onion2k 5y ago
    Anti-trust law is not simple. In the case of MSFT and IE they were accused under the protects of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act[1] of using their monopoly position (Windows) to reduce consumer choice (bundling IE without letting users pick a different option). In the case of Apple and Google, it's more likely to fall under the Clayton Antitrust Act[2] as it's a matter of corporations collaborating to reduce consumer choice (but I am not a lawyer, and not even American, so I could be waaaay off the mark here.) [1] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sherman-antiturst-act.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/sherman-antiturst-act.a... [2] https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/clayton-antitrust-act.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/clayton-antitrust-act.a...
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    > That only applies when you dealing with markets with an absence of competition. This is incorrect. From the FTC[1]: > Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power — that is, the long term ability to raise price or exclude competitors. That is how that term is used here: a "monopolist" is a firm with significant and durable market power. [1] https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-antitrust-laws/single-firm-conduct/monopolization-defined https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/competition-guidance/guide-a...
threeseed 5y ago
a) Apple has had their own search engine for years now. It powers Safari Suggestions. b) They don't have an option to change it. c) If they were to extend its use for all searches then I can't imagine there would be an issue. And if there was it would likely be across the entire mobile search industry.
- WanderPanda 5y ago
  addition to a): The quality of its results is laughably bad

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Nextgrid 5y ago

The list is hardcoded to a handful of options (all of which I suspect of paying Apple, except maybe DuckDuckGo) with no way to add your own.

14 5y ago

It only allows, on my phone anyways, google bing yahoo and DuckDuckGo. I’m not sure if this changes with region but I don’t see Yandex or Baidu or a few other less popular ones. So why doesn’t apple just allow any engine? So yes it is easy to change for a few select engines. If you jailbreak you can add others.