3 ms·

The alternative option seems to be that Apple is for some reason required to use their position to enter the search market. Why is that the alternative? No one

The alternative option seems to be that Apple is for some reason required to use their position to enter the search market. Why is that the alternative? No one is saying Apple have to provide their own search engine; people are suggesting Mac products should give the user a clear choice. A much more obvious alternative is that Apple (or any OS provider for that matter) shouldn't be able to sell the default search engine option on their products to the highest bidder without making it easy to change. When Microsoft lost their IE law suit they added a simple set of options to Windows as part of setup to pick a browser. Apple could do the same for search engines. You could read the current situation as Apple using their position as the only provider of Mac OS software to make $20bn/year by refusing to give users a choice of search provider. It doesn't really matter that the search is a separate company - the issue is lack of choice that distorts the market in favor of two companies (Apple and Google) rather than consumers. That's bait for anti-trust lawyers.

bni 5y ago
It is easy to change, it a dropdown in Safari settings, very easy to find. I agree though that Google pays Apple billions to be the default stinks. Even though in this case Apple greed aligns perfectly with user expectation.
- amelius 5y ago
  It still makes me wonder: if Apple had their own search engine, would they be allowed to not have the option to change it?
  - onion2k 5y ago
    That would be a very clear anti-trust violation where they would be abusing position in the OS market to influence their position in the search market.
    - amelius 5y ago
      Ok, wouldn't there be the same problem with app stores then?
    - izacus 5y ago
      Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. So excluding and removing healthy market competition is completely OK in that respect. Or so we're told.
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        > Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. Even that deflection is incorrect. When it comes to the mobile market in the US, Apple has over 60% of the market, and Google has the rest. When it comes to the mobile app distribution market, they're responsible for 100% more sales than Google is, and both companies make up that entire market. In the US, Apple is the most used mobile and mobile app provider. And even if they weren't, they have a duopoly with Google in a dozen or more markets.
    - ahtihn 5y ago
      How is that different to what they're doing with browsers? Last time I checked, you can't ship your own browser/js engine on iOS
      - onion2k 5y ago
        It's exactly the same. I have no idea how they're able to get away with it.
        stickfigure 5y ago
        Perhaps your understanding of antitrust law is flawed.
        onion2k 5y ago
  - threeseed 5y ago
    a) Apple has had their own search engine for years now. It powers Safari Suggestions. b) They don't have an option to change it. c) If they were to extend its use for all searches then I can't imagine there would be an issue. And if there was it would likely be across the entire mobile search industry.
    - WanderPanda 5y ago
      addition to a): The quality of its results is laughably bad
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  The list is hardcoded to a handful of options (all of which I suspect of paying Apple, except maybe DuckDuckGo) with no way to add your own.
- 14 5y ago
  It only allows, on my phone anyways, google bing yahoo and DuckDuckGo. I’m not sure if this changes with region but I don’t see Yandex or Baidu or a few other less popular ones. So why doesn’t apple just allow any engine? So yes it is easy to change for a few select engines. If you jailbreak you can add others.
sigzero 5y ago
> people are suggesting Mac products should give the user a clear choice. People can suggest all they want. Apple doesn't have to take that suggestion. Apple doesn't have to give you the ability to add search engines period. They give 5 choices currently from what I have read. They can also take money for making one of those the default. None of that is illegal.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  The lawsuit seeks to clarify that point.

bni 5y ago

It is easy to change, it a dropdown in Safari settings, very easy to find. I agree though that Google pays Apple billions to be the default stinks. Even though in this case Apple greed aligns perfectly with user expectation.

amelius 5y ago
It still makes me wonder: if Apple had their own search engine, would they be allowed to not have the option to change it?
- onion2k 5y ago
  That would be a very clear anti-trust violation where they would be abusing position in the OS market to influence their position in the search market.
  - amelius 5y ago
    Ok, wouldn't there be the same problem with app stores then?
  - izacus 5y ago
    Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. So excluding and removing healthy market competition is completely OK in that respect. Or so we're told.
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      > Except, as we keep being told by Apple fans here, that's not enough because Apple's OS isn't the most popular one. Even that deflection is incorrect. When it comes to the mobile market in the US, Apple has over 60% of the market, and Google has the rest. When it comes to the mobile app distribution market, they're responsible for 100% more sales than Google is, and both companies make up that entire market. In the US, Apple is the most used mobile and mobile app provider. And even if they weren't, they have a duopoly with Google in a dozen or more markets.
  - ahtihn 5y ago
    How is that different to what they're doing with browsers? Last time I checked, you can't ship your own browser/js engine on iOS
    - onion2k 5y ago
      It's exactly the same. I have no idea how they're able to get away with it.
      - stickfigure 5y ago
        Perhaps your understanding of antitrust law is flawed.
        onion2k 5y ago
- threeseed 5y ago
  a) Apple has had their own search engine for years now. It powers Safari Suggestions. b) They don't have an option to change it. c) If they were to extend its use for all searches then I can't imagine there would be an issue. And if there was it would likely be across the entire mobile search industry.
  - WanderPanda 5y ago
    addition to a): The quality of its results is laughably bad
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Nextgrid 5y ago
The list is hardcoded to a handful of options (all of which I suspect of paying Apple, except maybe DuckDuckGo) with no way to add your own.
14 5y ago
It only allows, on my phone anyways, google bing yahoo and DuckDuckGo. I’m not sure if this changes with region but I don’t see Yandex or Baidu or a few other less popular ones. So why doesn’t apple just allow any engine? So yes it is easy to change for a few select engines. If you jailbreak you can add others.

sigzero 5y ago

> people are suggesting Mac products should give the user a clear choice. People can suggest all they want. Apple doesn't have to take that suggestion. Apple doesn't have to give you the ability to add search engines period. They give 5 choices currently from what I have read. They can also take money for making one of those the default. None of that is illegal.

ipaddr 5y ago
The lawsuit seeks to clarify that point.