5 ms·

I always thought Henry Ford "won" because he innovated on the manufacturing process with his introduction of the assembly line, which allowed him to produce bet

I always thought Henry Ford "won" because he innovated on the manufacturing process with his introduction of the assembly line, which allowed him to produce better and cheaper automobiles more quickly than his competitors. I had never heard that he embraced a "continuous deployment" model, and this short interview obviously doesn't get into details.

atirip 15y ago
Yes, his idea was assembly line, which by Eric Ries was completely overrated? And Google - how do you make better search engine by "listening your customers"? No, you don't, you need an idea of pagerank foe example. Without that worthless idea you are toast, no matter how much you listen... Oh and that thermonuclear reactor that we all dream about and what will resolve all energy problems on earth. No idea how to build it. Listen customers? Good luck with that.
- ashrust 15y ago
  The PageRank paper directly references customer concerns and their approach: "Some argue that on the web, users should specify more accurately what they want and add more words to their query. We disagree vehemently with this position." Section 3.1 - http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html
- clistctrl 15y ago
  Ah, I see... so there's no one specific method to success?
- relix 15y ago
  * Customers want higher quality, cheaper cars -> Create a production process that satisfies these requests. * Customers want better search results -> Create an algorithm that finds better results. * Customers want clean, abundant energy -> Find out about the thermonuclear reactor. You're looking at it from the wrong side. If customers didn't want better search results but instead wanted portals, Google would have died, and Yahoo and Altavista would be about as big as Google right now. How do you know they want better search results? By listening to their needs. Your product-idea might be the best thing since slice bread, but it's worthless if no one wants it. PS: I'm not saying Google or Ford used this process, of course. But they are extraordinary companies. Also, if enough companies try, at least some should come close to satisfying the customer's needs just by chance and some intuition. You don't hear about the companies that had a great idea, implemented it, and then dropped dead for lack of customers.
  - billybob 15y ago
    "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." — Henry Ford
    - jamesbritt 15y ago
      Citation needed
      - pnp 15y ago
        Looks like Ford may have thought that way, but didn't say it: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2938254 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2938254
    - Hisoka 15y ago
      If you stop being pedantic, a car really is a faster horse. It just doesn't the physical nature of a horse, that's all.
      - jamesbritt 15y ago
        If you stop being pedantic, a car really is a faster horse. It just doesn't the physical nature of a horse, that's all. This is what I don't get about the regurgitation of that "quote". It's obvious that what people are asking for is something faster; "horse" is just a point of reference. People could have asked for a smaller horse, or a horse that eats less hay, or a horse that doesn't shit so much, and if you're not a blindered literalistic you'll easily read between the lines. The "users are clueless" meme is perplexing. If they're so clueless, what does that say about the products they choose?
  - atirip 15y ago
    "Your product-idea might be the best thing since slice bread, but it's worthless if no one wants it." I'm not arguing about that, that I agree actually. But your brilliant execution is equally worthless if you do not have an idea HOW you should execute. Creating an algoritm that finds better results is not something you just sit and do. But. - As you may not know. Customers did not what mobile phones. At all. And they absolutely did not want SMS. By listening their needs, we still be using landlines these days. - Customers did passionately, desperately want videophones, since 70's I remember. :-)
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- espeed 15y ago
  "Listening" to your customers also includes the iterative, quantitative process of testing and measuring your ideas, not just listening to qualitative customer feedback and requests.
aytekin 15y ago
Think of your continuous deployment server as an assembly line. The more you automate things the more you can innovate.
0x12 15y ago
Ford did not 'introduce the assembly line' to car manufacturing, see: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091102183112AAlk65w http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091102183112AA... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Olds_Motor_Vehicle_Company_.281901.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Olds_Motor_Vehicl... But he improved on it quite a bit.
- nosse 15y ago
  This proves again that the idea of assembly line was the thing. Oldsmobile lasted for over hundred years and was one of the successors.
hammock 15y ago
Ford didn't invent the assembly line, he mastered it. Ford's naming conventions also hint at the continuous deployments, small batches and quick pivots that Ries is talking about: When Ford finally found a hit with the Model T, there were 18 prior prototypes (A-S), including many production models - A, C, F, N, R, and S. The revolutionary idea of interchangeable parts (again, congruent with Ries' thesis) had a lot to with with why Ford was able to iterate so much.
- jsdalton 15y ago
  From another commenter in the thread I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Ford_Motor_Company_.281908-1915.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Ford_Motor_Compan... "As a result of these developments in method, Ford's cars came off the line in three minute intervals. This was much faster than previous methods, increasing production by eight to one (requiring 12.5 man-hours before, 1 hour 33 minutes after), while using less manpower.[2] It was so successful, paint became a bottleneck. Only japan black would dry fast enough, forcing the company to drop the variety of colors available before 1914, until fast-drying Duco lacquer was developed in 1926.[2] In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.[2] "The assembly line technique was an integral part of the diffusion of the automobile into American society. Decreased costs of production allowed the cost of the Model T to drop within the budget of the American middle class. In 1908, the price of a Model T was around $825, and by 1912 it had dropped to around $575. This price reduction is comparable to a drop from $15,000 to $10,000 in dollar terms from the year 2000." To me those numbers are quite significant. I am no student of automobile history, but it seems to me that the primary driver of Ford's success was the massive production efficiencies and reduced costs associated with the modern moving assembly line. I have to imagine there were "better" cars than the Model T, or other cars that had more prototypes and iterations. Anyhow, I don't really mean to dispute the author's thesis here, since there's not really enough evidence to judge it. But I'm having a really hard time being convinced that some factor other than Ford reducing the production time per car by a factor of almost 10 and the price by almost half was primarily responsible for the company's success with the Model T.
  - 6ren 15y ago

atirip 15y ago

Yes, his idea was assembly line, which by Eric Ries was completely overrated? And Google - how do you make better search engine by "listening your customers"? No, you don't, you need an idea of pagerank foe example. Without that worthless idea you are toast, no matter how much you listen... Oh and that thermonuclear reactor that we all dream about and what will resolve all energy problems on earth. No idea how to build it. Listen customers? Good luck with that.

ashrust 15y ago
The PageRank paper directly references customer concerns and their approach: "Some argue that on the web, users should specify more accurately what they want and add more words to their query. We disagree vehemently with this position." Section 3.1 - http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html http://infolab.stanford.edu/~backrub/google.html
clistctrl 15y ago
Ah, I see... so there's no one specific method to success?
relix 15y ago
* Customers want higher quality, cheaper cars -> Create a production process that satisfies these requests. * Customers want better search results -> Create an algorithm that finds better results. * Customers want clean, abundant energy -> Find out about the thermonuclear reactor. You're looking at it from the wrong side. If customers didn't want better search results but instead wanted portals, Google would have died, and Yahoo and Altavista would be about as big as Google right now. How do you know they want better search results? By listening to their needs. Your product-idea might be the best thing since slice bread, but it's worthless if no one wants it. PS: I'm not saying Google or Ford used this process, of course. But they are extraordinary companies. Also, if enough companies try, at least some should come close to satisfying the customer's needs just by chance and some intuition. You don't hear about the companies that had a great idea, implemented it, and then dropped dead for lack of customers.
- billybob 15y ago
  "If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses." — Henry Ford
  - jamesbritt 15y ago
    Citation needed
    - pnp 15y ago
      Looks like Ford may have thought that way, but didn't say it: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2938254 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2938254
  - Hisoka 15y ago
    If you stop being pedantic, a car really is a faster horse. It just doesn't the physical nature of a horse, that's all.
    - jamesbritt 15y ago
      If you stop being pedantic, a car really is a faster horse. It just doesn't the physical nature of a horse, that's all. This is what I don't get about the regurgitation of that "quote". It's obvious that what people are asking for is something faster; "horse" is just a point of reference. People could have asked for a smaller horse, or a horse that eats less hay, or a horse that doesn't shit so much, and if you're not a blindered literalistic you'll easily read between the lines. The "users are clueless" meme is perplexing. If they're so clueless, what does that say about the products they choose?
- atirip 15y ago
  "Your product-idea might be the best thing since slice bread, but it's worthless if no one wants it." I'm not arguing about that, that I agree actually. But your brilliant execution is equally worthless if you do not have an idea HOW you should execute. Creating an algoritm that finds better results is not something you just sit and do. But. - As you may not know. Customers did not what mobile phones. At all. And they absolutely did not want SMS. By listening their needs, we still be using landlines these days. - Customers did passionately, desperately want videophones, since 70's I remember. :-)
deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
espeed 15y ago
"Listening" to your customers also includes the iterative, quantitative process of testing and measuring your ideas, not just listening to qualitative customer feedback and requests.

aytekin 15y ago

Think of your continuous deployment server as an assembly line. The more you automate things the more you can innovate.

0x12 15y ago

Ford did not 'introduce the assembly line' to car manufacturing, see: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091102183112AAlk65w http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091102183112AA... and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Olds_Motor_Vehicle_Company_.281901.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Olds_Motor_Vehicl... But he improved on it quite a bit.

nosse 15y ago
This proves again that the idea of assembly line was the thing. Oldsmobile lasted for over hundred years and was one of the successors.

hammock 15y ago

Ford didn't invent the assembly line, he mastered it. Ford's naming conventions also hint at the continuous deployments, small batches and quick pivots that Ries is talking about: When Ford finally found a hit with the Model T, there were 18 prior prototypes (A-S), including many production models - A, C, F, N, R, and S. The revolutionary idea of interchangeable parts (again, congruent with Ries' thesis) had a lot to with with why Ford was able to iterate so much.

jsdalton 15y ago
From another commenter in the thread I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Ford_Motor_Company_.281908-1915.29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assembly_line#Ford_Motor_Compan... "As a result of these developments in method, Ford's cars came off the line in three minute intervals. This was much faster than previous methods, increasing production by eight to one (requiring 12.5 man-hours before, 1 hour 33 minutes after), while using less manpower.[2] It was so successful, paint became a bottleneck. Only japan black would dry fast enough, forcing the company to drop the variety of colors available before 1914, until fast-drying Duco lacquer was developed in 1926.[2] In 1914, an assembly line worker could buy a Model T with four months' pay.[2] "The assembly line technique was an integral part of the diffusion of the automobile into American society. Decreased costs of production allowed the cost of the Model T to drop within the budget of the American middle class. In 1908, the price of a Model T was around $825, and by 1912 it had dropped to around $575. This price reduction is comparable to a drop from $15,000 to $10,000 in dollar terms from the year 2000." To me those numbers are quite significant. I am no student of automobile history, but it seems to me that the primary driver of Ford's success was the massive production efficiencies and reduced costs associated with the modern moving assembly line. I have to imagine there were "better" cars than the Model T, or other cars that had more prototypes and iterations. Anyhow, I don't really mean to dispute the author's thesis here, since there's not really enough evidence to judge it. But I'm having a really hard time being convinced that some factor other than Ford reducing the production time per car by a factor of almost 10 and the price by almost half was primarily responsible for the company's success with the Model T.
- 6ren 15y ago