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There are many stories around both Elena and Nicolae Ceausescu. Since they were supposed to be perfect in the eyes of the people, the news and all available off

by rocgf 5y ago

There are many stories around both Elena and Nicolae Ceausescu. Since they were supposed to be perfect in the eyes of the people, the news and all available official information portrayed them similarly to how Kim Jong-Un is portrayed today in North Korea. They were supposed to be the best at everything, including science. One of my favourite stories is about one of the metro lines in Bucharest. Elena Ceausescu managed to see some of the plans for the metro and told the engineers to scrap a particular station - Romana station - because of her bias against students. The engineers realized that this is stupid and that they will likely have to retrofit the station at some later point anyway, so they built it in secret, masked as a maintenance necessity. As a result, the present Romana station is very narrow, unlike any other metro stations in Bucharest. Makes me wonder how much planning was done based on the rulers' whims. A short summary of the full story + photos can be found on Wikipedia. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pia%C8%9Ba_Roman%C4%83_metro_station https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pia%C8%9Ba_Roman%C4%83_metro_s...

underscore_ku 5y ago
indeed Romania in the 80s was like North Korea
- random314 5y ago
  Economically, Romania was one of the wealthier countries in the Eastern bloc in the 80s. The fall of the communist government actually led to an economic downturn which took several years to recover from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History
  - marmakoide 5y ago
    Romania was in full crunch mode in the 80's to reimburse quickly it debts. It was at the expense of most Romanians
  - underscore_ku 5y ago
    Romania in 89 was the poorest country in Europe after Albania. a failed state just like the rest communist states
    - random314 5y ago
      I am talking about the eastern bloc. For eg, Poland, Albania, Ukraine and several other Soviet states were poorer. Romanian economy collapsed after fall of the Soviet union in 1988
  - oblio 5y ago
    Hi there, history rewriter ! First of all, Romania wasn't the one of the wealthiest countries in the Eastern bloc at almost any point. East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and even the USSR for a while were ahead. Secondly, even if that were true, Ceaușescu went on a North Korean craze (the OG kpop fan), massive parades and autarky (economic self sufficiency) included. The Romanian economy reached its relative Communist peak before 1980, because Ceaușescu crashed it afterwards trying to pay all foreign debt. Not some, all of it. Oh, and he built the second largest building in the world (current day Palace of the Parliament), spending roughly 1 full state budget on it). Romania crashed hard because we were making stuff nobody wanted. We were selling it inside the Eastern bloc to captive buyers. On top of that privatization was delayed and initially it was only to internal cronies.
    - AniseAbyss 5y ago
      He was also a very popular figure in the West because Romania went against the USSR. The only leader from the East who was welcomed with full regards by the West at every opportunity. Understandable since as a dictator Ceaușescu only cared about himself not Communist ideology.
    - random314 5y ago
      I did not say Romania was the richest eastern bloc state. It was relatively wealthier amongst them. Poland, Ukraine, n Korea- all of them were poorer. I gave a citation as well. You can also look here to see the strong per capita gdp growth rate pre 1989 in the 70s and 80s. Romania started off very poor. https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 Romania grew to a per capita gdp of ~2600$ in 1988 from ~600$ in 1970, while N Korea has a gdp per capita of $600 today - after 50 years. Also, I didn't comment about Ceaușescu. So, I am not sure what you are responding to.
      - oblio 5y ago
        Are you Romanian? Because your comment seems like one of those jokes about aliens seeing humans cooking and then reproducing what the humans are creating, but without the taste, because their monitoring doesn't capture that. Ceaușescu was the dictator for the entire period you're mentioning, any discussion about Romania in the 70s and 80s implicitly refers to him. Other than that, Romania's growth was fake from many aspects and almost no Romanian alive at the time will agree with you that the 80s where better for Romania, economically, than the 70s. Romania's economy was geared towards exporting everything useful, including food, to non competitive markets. Figures were inflated at every level. Vanity projects were taking up half the Romanian economy. Backyard furnaces 2.0. Make stuff nobody wants or needs, of crap quality, while not feeding people. And regarding North Korea, it's well documented that Ceaușescu was emulating Kim. But otherwise we were more developed than North Korea since at least the Korean War, so those numbers don't say much. If anything we went down, closer to their level, during the 80s.
  - ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
    I have no idea about Romanian history, but I had the opportunity to work with some Romanian software engineers, and they were some of the best I've encountered.
    - random314 5y ago
      Romania also performs unusually well at the international math olympiad, given its population and economy.
    - vixen99 5y ago
      Not surprising given the Romanian education system. It's great for the high-achievers. Extremely demanding and rigorous. Anecdotally I get the impression that it's not so hot for those who don't fall into this category or are late developers. If only they could fix that.
PicassoCTs 5y ago
Im reminded of the old stalin joke, were the engineers were discussing the best places for the tran-sibirian railroad to run along - and the impatient boss, just took a ruler and made a line. And thats how they build it- including the little bow, were the bosses middle finger was in the way.
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  Ah, but there were no bosses in stalins sowjet russia. Just some more equal comrades carrying the burden of leadership.
- oblio 5y ago
  You joke, but I think it's true. In 1940 the Soviets invaded part of Romania, we were forced to give up some territories. They were supposed to get Bessarabia, but for some weird reason they also got the Hertza County, which has never been part of a non-Romanian state. The only way that makes sense looking at a map is if someone lazily drew a straight line and the other side was too afraid to point out the stupidity.
- Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
  I heard that story about Tsar Nicholas II, in whose reign the first Trans-Siberian railway line (from Moscow to Vladivostok) was actually completed- it was begun during his father's reign, but Nicholas supervised it from the beginning. The similar Stalin story is about the Hotel Moskva, as depicted on the label of Stolichnaya vodka. The architect allegedly didn't know which of two possible designs Stalin wanted to approve, so one wing was built to each design.
- Imnimo 5y ago
  There is a similar apocryphal story about the border between Belarus and Lithuania. The story goes that Stalin had set his pipe down on the map, and no one dared move it, so they just drew around it. The result is a conspicuous bulge in the border South of Vilnius.
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Sykes & Picot have entered the chat.
tsimionescu 5y ago
Comparing present day North Korea with 80s Romania is pretty far - the communist regime in Romania never had anything close to the same fanatical dedication from its people. Few in Romania ever believed the official propaganda, even if they were forced to spew it. In fact this is common with most dictatorial propaganda: no one believes it, it's more of a show of force - everyone repeating what they know to be a lie, least they get reported for wrong think. By all accounts, this is not the case in N Korea - the propaganda there has been much more drilled into people, and I've even seen interviews with defectors saying that they still couldn't bring themselves to say bad things about Kim, or touching S Korean leaflets, for fear of divine retribution.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- underscore_ku 5y ago
  why do you think north koreans believe the state propaganda?
  - foobiekr 5y ago
    Testimonies from escapees tend to show they sort of believed at least the negative propaganda about the south, western countries, and China. Not so much the godlike powers of the leadership.
    - adventured 5y ago
      It's similarly true about Soviet propaganda. The people living in Soviet territory commonly believed the propaganda about the US and West as well. Even the highest tiers, including eg Yeltsin, believed some of the false propaganda (which is why Yeltsin couldn't believe his now famous 1989 visit to Randall's grocery store in Houston Texas wasn't wholly staged). Yeltsin was on record admitting that even the upper echelons of Soviet power believed a lot of the false propaganda they were fed. You can still see a river of false propaganda common among the Russian people in their beliefs about the US. It's all over YouTube in interviews-on-the-street type videos. The Russian people still live under a totalitarian regime that directly controls all media, all democratic actions and tries to control all information.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by rocgf 5y ago

underscore_ku 5y ago

indeed Romania in the 80s was like North Korea

random314 5y ago
Economically, Romania was one of the wealthier countries in the Eastern bloc in the 80s. The fall of the communist government actually led to an economic downturn which took several years to recover from. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Romania#History
- marmakoide 5y ago
  Romania was in full crunch mode in the 80's to reimburse quickly it debts. It was at the expense of most Romanians
- underscore_ku 5y ago
  Romania in 89 was the poorest country in Europe after Albania. a failed state just like the rest communist states
  - random314 5y ago
    I am talking about the eastern bloc. For eg, Poland, Albania, Ukraine and several other Soviet states were poorer. Romanian economy collapsed after fall of the Soviet union in 1988
- oblio 5y ago
  Hi there, history rewriter ! First of all, Romania wasn't the one of the wealthiest countries in the Eastern bloc at almost any point. East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia and even the USSR for a while were ahead. Secondly, even if that were true, Ceaușescu went on a North Korean craze (the OG kpop fan), massive parades and autarky (economic self sufficiency) included. The Romanian economy reached its relative Communist peak before 1980, because Ceaușescu crashed it afterwards trying to pay all foreign debt. Not some, all of it. Oh, and he built the second largest building in the world (current day Palace of the Parliament), spending roughly 1 full state budget on it). Romania crashed hard because we were making stuff nobody wanted. We were selling it inside the Eastern bloc to captive buyers. On top of that privatization was delayed and initially it was only to internal cronies.
  - AniseAbyss 5y ago
    He was also a very popular figure in the West because Romania went against the USSR. The only leader from the East who was welcomed with full regards by the West at every opportunity. Understandable since as a dictator Ceaușescu only cared about himself not Communist ideology.
  - random314 5y ago
    I did not say Romania was the richest eastern bloc state. It was relatively wealthier amongst them. Poland, Ukraine, n Korea- all of them were poorer. I gave a citation as well. You can also look here to see the strong per capita gdp growth rate pre 1989 in the 70s and 80s. Romania started off very poor. https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 https://countryeconomy.com/gdp/romania?year=1990 Romania grew to a per capita gdp of ~2600$ in 1988 from ~600$ in 1970, while N Korea has a gdp per capita of $600 today - after 50 years. Also, I didn't comment about Ceaușescu. So, I am not sure what you are responding to.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Are you Romanian? Because your comment seems like one of those jokes about aliens seeing humans cooking and then reproducing what the humans are creating, but without the taste, because their monitoring doesn't capture that. Ceaușescu was the dictator for the entire period you're mentioning, any discussion about Romania in the 70s and 80s implicitly refers to him. Other than that, Romania's growth was fake from many aspects and almost no Romanian alive at the time will agree with you that the 80s where better for Romania, economically, than the 70s. Romania's economy was geared towards exporting everything useful, including food, to non competitive markets. Figures were inflated at every level. Vanity projects were taking up half the Romanian economy. Backyard furnaces 2.0. Make stuff nobody wants or needs, of crap quality, while not feeding people. And regarding North Korea, it's well documented that Ceaușescu was emulating Kim. But otherwise we were more developed than North Korea since at least the Korean War, so those numbers don't say much. If anything we went down, closer to their level, during the 80s.
- ChrisMarshallNY 5y ago
  I have no idea about Romanian history, but I had the opportunity to work with some Romanian software engineers, and they were some of the best I've encountered.
  - random314 5y ago
    Romania also performs unusually well at the international math olympiad, given its population and economy.
  - vixen99 5y ago
    Not surprising given the Romanian education system. It's great for the high-achievers. Extremely demanding and rigorous. Anecdotally I get the impression that it's not so hot for those who don't fall into this category or are late developers. If only they could fix that.

PicassoCTs 5y ago

Im reminded of the old stalin joke, were the engineers were discussing the best places for the tran-sibirian railroad to run along - and the impatient boss, just took a ruler and made a line. And thats how they build it- including the little bow, were the bosses middle finger was in the way.

hutzlibu 5y ago
Ah, but there were no bosses in stalins sowjet russia. Just some more equal comrades carrying the burden of leadership.
oblio 5y ago
You joke, but I think it's true. In 1940 the Soviets invaded part of Romania, we were forced to give up some territories. They were supposed to get Bessarabia, but for some weird reason they also got the Hertza County, which has never been part of a non-Romanian state. The only way that makes sense looking at a map is if someone lazily drew a straight line and the other side was too afraid to point out the stupidity.
Ichthypresbyter 5y ago
I heard that story about Tsar Nicholas II, in whose reign the first Trans-Siberian railway line (from Moscow to Vladivostok) was actually completed- it was begun during his father's reign, but Nicholas supervised it from the beginning. The similar Stalin story is about the Hotel Moskva, as depicted on the label of Stolichnaya vodka. The architect allegedly didn't know which of two possible designs Stalin wanted to approve, so one wing was built to each design.
Imnimo 5y ago
There is a similar apocryphal story about the border between Belarus and Lithuania. The story goes that Stalin had set his pipe down on the map, and no one dared move it, so they just drew around it. The result is a conspicuous bulge in the border South of Vilnius.
dredmorbius 5y ago
Sykes & Picot have entered the chat.

tsimionescu 5y ago

Comparing present day North Korea with 80s Romania is pretty far - the communist regime in Romania never had anything close to the same fanatical dedication from its people. Few in Romania ever believed the official propaganda, even if they were forced to spew it. In fact this is common with most dictatorial propaganda: no one believes it, it's more of a show of force - everyone repeating what they know to be a lie, least they get reported for wrong think. By all accounts, this is not the case in N Korea - the propaganda there has been much more drilled into people, and I've even seen interviews with defectors saying that they still couldn't bring themselves to say bad things about Kim, or touching S Korean leaflets, for fear of divine retribution.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
underscore_ku 5y ago
why do you think north koreans believe the state propaganda?
- foobiekr 5y ago
  Testimonies from escapees tend to show they sort of believed at least the negative propaganda about the south, western countries, and China. Not so much the godlike powers of the leadership.
  - adventured 5y ago
    It's similarly true about Soviet propaganda. The people living in Soviet territory commonly believed the propaganda about the US and West as well. Even the highest tiers, including eg Yeltsin, believed some of the false propaganda (which is why Yeltsin couldn't believe his now famous 1989 visit to Randall's grocery store in Houston Texas wasn't wholly staged). Yeltsin was on record admitting that even the upper echelons of Soviet power believed a lot of the false propaganda they were fed. You can still see a river of false propaganda common among the Russian people in their beliefs about the US. It's all over YouTube in interviews-on-the-street type videos. The Russian people still live under a totalitarian regime that directly controls all media, all democratic actions and tries to control all information.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]