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> In the UK and USA this resulted in probably hundreds of thousands of needless deaths off the back of delayed and then ham-fisted action by Boris Johnson and D

> In the UK and USA this resulted in probably hundreds of thousands of needless deaths off the back of delayed and then ham-fisted action by Boris Johnson and Donald Trump's administrations. I can't comment on the UK's history, but I can tell you that you are 100% wrong with respect to what you think the response was in the US. This isn't a matter of opinion on my part. This is a matter of documented fact. The timeline lives on the internet if one bothers to do the research. The basic timeline goes something like this (again, google is your friend as far as stringing this together): On January 31st. 2020, Trump announces travel restrictions from China. On February 2nd (and for about a month after that) various officials from New York as well as Nancy Pelosi are on video telling the public that there is nothing to this virus, that they should continue life as normal, get on the subway, buses, trains, go to work, restaurants, festivals and entertainment venues. You can find the governor, mayor and director of health of New York making these statements as well as saying and implying that Trump was something between crazy, racist and hateful for sounding the alarm. If you look at how the infection spread in the US, you'll quickly discover that it absolutely exploded in New York and quickly launched everywhere. I am sure the data exists to trace with more detail. People were leaving the New York area like rats on a sinking ship. The infection quickly spread to adjoining states. And, from there, to the rest of the nation. In effect, what happened, is that, in particular, New York officials, due to a combination of ignorance and absolute politically motivated hatred for Trump, caused the direct infection of tens of thousands of people and a chain reaction that likely infected beyond hundreds of thousands as secondary and tertiary layers of the chain reaction. I find it very interesting to see how the media narrative has the world believing Trump did not act, when, in reality, he acted early and it was New York officials who caused the massive early spread of the virus because of their political bullshit. When I heard that Trump imposed travel restrictions on January 31st. I immediately checked our supplies, placed orders for six months worth of food and critical items and warned friends and family members. By the time the pandemic was in full force I, and those who listened to me, were ready to lock down and navigate the storm. And all of it was because of a simple observation: Regardless of what I thought of Trump, imposing a travel restriction on China was a serious enough move that there had to be far more under the surface than what the vast majority of the media narrative contained (he is a racist, etc.). It is quite possible that, by ignoring politics and taking action based on the meaning of the moment, I saved lives within our family and circle of friends. One name stands in my mind, I remember because it is unusual: Dr. Oxiris Barbot, New York Health Commissioner. Look up what she said to the public on February 2nd., 2020, just a couple of days after the travel restrictions were announced, and tell me that had no consequences. Then trace every NY official through video on a daily basis in February and March. No, that was criminal. Trump was trying to lock things down, these people fought him every day, the media fought him every day and effectively told everyone to go get infected during February and March, if not longer. Facts matter.

prox 5y ago
Rather than one political party failed, I would say -all- political parties failed. None of them did what had to be done. We could make a blame list for both parties and it would be quite long. The idea is to find novel ideas (say ventilation for example) and strategies to cope with this, I don’t give a hoot what party you belong to.
jpgvm 5y ago
You are inadvertently proving my point. Politicization is the problem. Sure Trump should have mandated actual national lockdown like we had in Thailand, however you are also right that the other side of the political machine took positions directly opposed to Trump almost for the sake of it. That is exactly what politicization is and that is exactly what I am saying is more dangerous than the pandemic itself.
- robomartin 5y ago
  > Trump should have mandated actual national lockdown In the US the president and federal government do not have the authority to do as you suggest. That's part of the problem. When the other side chooses to wage war against him, despite the fact that we were at the doorstep of a disaster, well, the rest is history. Please note that I did not disagree with you about the negative effects of playing politics with a pandemic. You are absolutely correct. What I wanted to note is that the Trump administration did take seriously bold measures very early on. The only reason the entire nation didn't take this seriously is because media is overwhelmingly dominated by Democrats in the US and they were so blinded by wanting to destroy Trump that they actually caused death through COVID across the nation. Nobody likes to talk about this because people just can't escape their ideological bias and look at reality in an objective fashion. As the pandemic started nearly our entire media machinery as well as the Democratic party were in full-out, take-no-prisoners war against Trump at every level. When the pandemic starts, that train had so much inertia that it was literally impossible for media giants like CNN and MSNBC to halt their war and do a 180. They were making money with the hate Trump narrative. Imagine turning around to say he was right and that we all had to support him. Impossible. And so, people died. I hope history looks at this objectively because there's an important lesson here that we must learn and there's a real risk of not learning it. Most historians are Democrats and it is probably fair to say most of them are part of the Trump hatred machinery. And so, nobody will be held accountable for what pain and loss they caused, not only in this nation but likely elsewhere. Every time I heard Trump speak on TV I wanted to vomit. The guy had the social skills of a brick. However, I think it is fair to say that nearly every single program he initiated and measure he took was right on point, including how the pandemic was handled. The entire world owes the very vaccines we are using to save countless lives to the effort his administration organized and ran to develop multiple vaccines faster than ever in history. The current president and vice president were actively maligning the vaccines and promoting all kinds of doubt upon them until they got elected. And then, all of a sudden, they wanted everyone to get vaccinated. The game they and their party played was nothing less than disgusting, if not criminal. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that Biden actually publicly recognized that the Trump administration got us the vaccines in record time. Unbelievable.

prox 5y ago

Rather than one political party failed, I would say -all- political parties failed. None of them did what had to be done. We could make a blame list for both parties and it would be quite long. The idea is to find novel ideas (say ventilation for example) and strategies to cope with this, I don’t give a hoot what party you belong to.

jpgvm 5y ago

You are inadvertently proving my point. Politicization is the problem. Sure Trump should have mandated actual national lockdown like we had in Thailand, however you are also right that the other side of the political machine took positions directly opposed to Trump almost for the sake of it. That is exactly what politicization is and that is exactly what I am saying is more dangerous than the pandemic itself.

robomartin 5y ago
> Trump should have mandated actual national lockdown In the US the president and federal government do not have the authority to do as you suggest. That's part of the problem. When the other side chooses to wage war against him, despite the fact that we were at the doorstep of a disaster, well, the rest is history. Please note that I did not disagree with you about the negative effects of playing politics with a pandemic. You are absolutely correct. What I wanted to note is that the Trump administration did take seriously bold measures very early on. The only reason the entire nation didn't take this seriously is because media is overwhelmingly dominated by Democrats in the US and they were so blinded by wanting to destroy Trump that they actually caused death through COVID across the nation. Nobody likes to talk about this because people just can't escape their ideological bias and look at reality in an objective fashion. As the pandemic started nearly our entire media machinery as well as the Democratic party were in full-out, take-no-prisoners war against Trump at every level. When the pandemic starts, that train had so much inertia that it was literally impossible for media giants like CNN and MSNBC to halt their war and do a 180. They were making money with the hate Trump narrative. Imagine turning around to say he was right and that we all had to support him. Impossible. And so, people died. I hope history looks at this objectively because there's an important lesson here that we must learn and there's a real risk of not learning it. Most historians are Democrats and it is probably fair to say most of them are part of the Trump hatred machinery. And so, nobody will be held accountable for what pain and loss they caused, not only in this nation but likely elsewhere. Every time I heard Trump speak on TV I wanted to vomit. The guy had the social skills of a brick. However, I think it is fair to say that nearly every single program he initiated and measure he took was right on point, including how the pandemic was handled. The entire world owes the very vaccines we are using to save countless lives to the effort his administration organized and ran to develop multiple vaccines faster than ever in history. The current president and vice president were actively maligning the vaccines and promoting all kinds of doubt upon them until they got elected. And then, all of a sudden, they wanted everyone to get vaccinated. The game they and their party played was nothing less than disgusting, if not criminal. It wasn't until a few weeks ago that Biden actually publicly recognized that the Trump administration got us the vaccines in record time. Unbelievable.