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I had an interesting conversation with a friend a few days ago. We both installed larger solar systems than we need. We are net exporters of energy. And we ar

I had an interesting conversation with a friend a few days ago. We both installed larger solar systems than we need. We are net exporters of energy. And we are both disgusted by how the energy company takes this energy and, effectively, pays us nothing for it while charging our neighbors who use it full rate. One of the ideas that was floated in the conversation was to setup a Bitcoin (or some other crypto) mining system that would be design to only operate on excess energy. In other words, we become export nothing or very little energy and consume the excess mining crypto. The idea, of course, is to make more money with that energy than what the power company pays us for it. I haven't done the math. I have no clue if this is fantasy or reality. My instincts tell me it would be an exercise in futility, which is why I won't waste any time on it. I could be wrong.

Nbox9 5y ago
If you’re trying to ‘do the math’ one thing you might consider is that any excess heat from the rig can be recycled in the house.
lordnacho 5y ago
Even if you only use excess energy for your own personal mining, the only way it has any value is if the rest of the network is running and mining. In the end, whether you're disconnected or not, there's one market connecting everything and if incentives decide it, business (in general) and here electricity specifically will flow across whatever boundaries you've set.
qqqwerty 5y ago
It would take decades just to recoup the equipment costs. It currently takes about 12-18 months to recoup the equipment costs ignoring electricity costs This assumes running the miners 24/7. If you only run your equipment a few hours a day in the summer months when your excess solar power is most abundant, then a decade feels about right.
- wdroz 5y ago
  This also assume eth1-like profits after eth2.0 this summer.
- robomartin 5y ago
  While I never took the time to quantify this, as I said, I always had a sense that this was not a viable idea. In other words, my educated guess told me it would be a waste of time to even evaluate the concept. > If you only run your equipment a few hours a day in the summer months when your excess solar power is most abundant As a point of interest, in my region (Southern California) the point of peak efficiency is shifted into the March-April-May period. Most people assume summer is when you do best. I too made that assumption before installing my array. There's an interplay between available solar radiation and panel temperature. As panels get hotter they become less efficient. This negative temperature coefficient is about 0.4% per degree C. Baseline specification are given for a panel operating at 25 degrees C. In the summer panels easily reach more than double that temperature. Which means that, in round numbers, you lose at least 10% of your generation capacity. A system that peaks at 10 kW in April might only yield somewhere in the 8 kW to 9 kW region in the summer. There's also how the energy is used. In the summer we have to run the air conditioning system nearly all day. That's about 5 kW for, say, ten hours a day. The AC system is off outside of the hottest months of the year. Which means we have a lot more excess energy during that time, in fact, if the AC isn't running we could run mining equipment consuming 5 kW for about 8 to 10 hours per day and still come out net positive in terms of energy costs to the utilities. Also as @Nbox9 mentioned, miner heat could be used for heating the home. This means that using excess energy outside of the period of the year during which air conditioning is necessary could be used for both mining and some nominal amount of heating. I can imagine a fully optimized system where you can use this to heat water and perhaps some of the home. Crazy, I know.
  - qqqwerty 5y ago
    For reference, a mining rig that pulls 5kW will likely cost you around $20-30k and will generate a significant amount of heat. You would likely need to install a ventilation system to deal with the heat even in the winter months. It is also worth mentioning that in places with net metering, the excess electricity isn't "free". Excess electricity gets sold back to the grid at retail rates, and the proceeds from that are used to offset consumption during non-daylight hours. So unless you have a significant credit on your utility bill every year that you cannot utilize (most utilities will not pay you cash for the excess), then mining crypto with you "excess" solar would just result in paying for more electricity when your panels are not producing.
samwillis 5y ago
Ignoring the bitcoin mining idea, which despite being a bitcoin skeptic I kind of like. The mistake is believing that domestic solar will ever provide better value for money than industrial scale solar or other green sources. The people making money on domestic solar are the companies selling it to the consumer. That’s not to say that there aren’t valid reasons for installing domestic solar: ethical, emotional, off grid, resilience.
kmlx 5y ago
> We are net exporters of energy. And we are both disgusted by how the energy company takes this energy and, effectively, pays us nothing for it while charging our neighbors who use it full rate. Solved in other countries by passing a law forcing the energy companies to either subtract the electricity you produce from your bill (in kW mind you, not $), or if you produce more than you consume, make a record of the surplus for later (again, in kW). This way you get to produce more during summer and use that excess to offset during winter. And since it's in kW, it's independent from the electricity price.

Nbox9 5y ago

If you’re trying to ‘do the math’ one thing you might consider is that any excess heat from the rig can be recycled in the house.

lordnacho 5y ago

Even if you only use excess energy for your own personal mining, the only way it has any value is if the rest of the network is running and mining. In the end, whether you're disconnected or not, there's one market connecting everything and if incentives decide it, business (in general) and here electricity specifically will flow across whatever boundaries you've set.

qqqwerty 5y ago

It would take decades just to recoup the equipment costs. It currently takes about 12-18 months to recoup the equipment costs ignoring electricity costs This assumes running the miners 24/7. If you only run your equipment a few hours a day in the summer months when your excess solar power is most abundant, then a decade feels about right.

wdroz 5y ago
This also assume eth1-like profits after eth2.0 this summer.
robomartin 5y ago
While I never took the time to quantify this, as I said, I always had a sense that this was not a viable idea. In other words, my educated guess told me it would be a waste of time to even evaluate the concept. > If you only run your equipment a few hours a day in the summer months when your excess solar power is most abundant As a point of interest, in my region (Southern California) the point of peak efficiency is shifted into the March-April-May period. Most people assume summer is when you do best. I too made that assumption before installing my array. There's an interplay between available solar radiation and panel temperature. As panels get hotter they become less efficient. This negative temperature coefficient is about 0.4% per degree C. Baseline specification are given for a panel operating at 25 degrees C. In the summer panels easily reach more than double that temperature. Which means that, in round numbers, you lose at least 10% of your generation capacity. A system that peaks at 10 kW in April might only yield somewhere in the 8 kW to 9 kW region in the summer. There's also how the energy is used. In the summer we have to run the air conditioning system nearly all day. That's about 5 kW for, say, ten hours a day. The AC system is off outside of the hottest months of the year. Which means we have a lot more excess energy during that time, in fact, if the AC isn't running we could run mining equipment consuming 5 kW for about 8 to 10 hours per day and still come out net positive in terms of energy costs to the utilities. Also as @Nbox9 mentioned, miner heat could be used for heating the home. This means that using excess energy outside of the period of the year during which air conditioning is necessary could be used for both mining and some nominal amount of heating. I can imagine a fully optimized system where you can use this to heat water and perhaps some of the home. Crazy, I know.
- qqqwerty 5y ago
  For reference, a mining rig that pulls 5kW will likely cost you around $20-30k and will generate a significant amount of heat. You would likely need to install a ventilation system to deal with the heat even in the winter months. It is also worth mentioning that in places with net metering, the excess electricity isn't "free". Excess electricity gets sold back to the grid at retail rates, and the proceeds from that are used to offset consumption during non-daylight hours. So unless you have a significant credit on your utility bill every year that you cannot utilize (most utilities will not pay you cash for the excess), then mining crypto with you "excess" solar would just result in paying for more electricity when your panels are not producing.

samwillis 5y ago

Ignoring the bitcoin mining idea, which despite being a bitcoin skeptic I kind of like. The mistake is believing that domestic solar will ever provide better value for money than industrial scale solar or other green sources. The people making money on domestic solar are the companies selling it to the consumer. That’s not to say that there aren’t valid reasons for installing domestic solar: ethical, emotional, off grid, resilience.

kmlx 5y ago

> We are net exporters of energy. And we are both disgusted by how the energy company takes this energy and, effectively, pays us nothing for it while charging our neighbors who use it full rate. Solved in other countries by passing a law forcing the energy companies to either subtract the electricity you produce from your bill (in kW mind you, not $), or if you produce more than you consume, make a record of the surplus for later (again, in kW). This way you get to produce more during summer and use that excess to offset during winter. And since it's in kW, it's independent from the electricity price.