18 ms·

We are rapidly depleting our remaining carbon budget. Can a bitcoiner please explain to me why this is a necessary technological development right now?

HKH2 5y ago
Because banks can get away with shutting down accounts for political reasons.
johndevor 5y ago
It's not "necessary" - it just is.
hotpotamus 5y ago
We all know the answer is greed.
epolanski 5y ago
"technological development". Don't we already have plenty of more efficient coins out there?
- thathndude 5y ago
  I’ve never understood the BTC purists. I’m generally anti-crypto in any variety, but As far as cryptocurrency‘s go, bitcoin is really bad compared to so many alternatives. I’d just as soon see it all go up in smoke. But why does BTC reign?
  - bidirectional 5y ago
    This is what I find strangest. At least coins like Ethereum and Solana have entire ecosystems of complex projects being built up around them (no matter how skeptical one may be of those projects), Bitcoin seems like an incredibly spartan ecosystem with basically one use, and the sole advantage of being first.
    - nadahalli 5y ago
      That's the entire point. Bitcoin has just one use case, and it's very inefficient design is tailor-made for that one use case. Alt-coins have use cases that can all be solved by AWS. The inefficient design is er....inefficient for those applications.
    - landemva 5y ago
      Solana is a VC-backed centralized money grab.
  - elliotec 5y ago
    Because it was first, and the word itself has permeated the psyche of society in ways that the other currencies haven't. People who know nothing at all about crypto buy into BTC because they've heard of it and heard it turns into money.
  - tasha0663 5y ago
    It's the power of denial. The sunk cost is enormous.
  - ohgodplsno 5y ago
    Because they don't give a single shit about the technology of it. All they're happy about is that their speculative asset keeps going up. They're grifters.
  - walkhour 5y ago
    Bitcoin is more successful mainly due to network effects and proven security, Bitcoin has withstood more attacks than any other cryptocurrency.
- topranks 5y ago
  Proof-of-stake is a funny one. Means those with the most money control the money system. Might not be the best idea. Proof-of-work is an ecological disaster though. Cryptocurrency is not really a good idea IMO.
clippablematt 5y ago
I’d be willing to bet over the next five years we see the biggest most impactful developments for reforestation/carbon offsets/political lobbying for change/rewilding programs /etc will come from crypto groups, funded and organised by daos. It’s brewing already. I also think we’ll see bitcoin become a smaller part of crypto and pow being banned in some countries. It’s going to be an interesting decade.
- walkhour 5y ago
  According to this prediction market(https://www.metaculus.com/questions/5205/bitcoins-market-dominant-cryptocurrency https://www.metaculus.com/questions/5205/bitcoins-market-dom...) Bitcoin will lose its dominant position on Feb 13, 2025.
hihihihi1234 5y ago
People don't have faith in the mainstream financial system and are fleeing for the exits.
- ls15 5y ago
  It amazes me, how many people seem not to see this point
  - not2b 5y ago
    But they aren't using BTC as a replacement for the financial system. Most buyers of BTC are using it much like the Dutch were using tulip bulbs: buy because the price (in real money) is going up. The exceptions are for illegal transactions or to pay off ransomware, and it isn't the best choice to do those either (other coins are better at hiding transactions).
  - otterley 5y ago
    Because it's not actually happening, if you look at the amount of money invested in cryptocurrencies and their transaction volume for goods and services compared to fiat currencies.
    - ls15 5y ago
      Very few people watched videos online in 1999, but some people predicted video sites like Youtube back then already. Traditional media called them crazy. Nowadays, people are using barely anything else than the internet for watching videos.
      - topranks 5y ago
        The blockers back then were bandwidth and CPU/GPU power to watch online videos. As soon as the technology made it practical it took off like lightning. Bitcoin payments don’t have any such fundamental blockers. Anyone with a smartphone can send or receive Bitcoin easy. Yet acceptance of Bitcoin for payments has not taken off at all. If anything it’s declined in recent years.
xiphias2 5y ago
Sure, if you are serious, the Bitcoin Standard book is a worthy read. But what’s important is that Bitcoin solves the inflation problem, and proof of work is the only system that we have for getting rid of the Cantillon effect of modern banking: the closer people get to the top of the central banks, the richer they get and destroy life for those who don’t have access to the inner layers of central banking. With Bitcoin it’s really hard to make profit with mining, as there’s a perfect (otherwise useless) competition. Some altcoins are reintroducing the Cantillon effect using proof of stake, and of course the market will decide on which is the more efficient system.
- endisneigh 5y ago
  Inflation isn't a bad thing necessarily.
  - not2b 5y ago
    Moderate inflation is good for debtors and keeps money circulating around the economy: those with savings can invest it in a way that keeps up with inflation. Deflation causes hoarding of money and economic collapse (like the Depression of the 1930s). Central banks try to manage inflation to keep is low but nonzero.
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      Can you explain how that Ponzi scheme works? I read parts of the source code before I invested in Bitcoin, and it looked to me like an open, honest system with easy-to-understand, clean code (unlike what Ponzi was doing, which is basically lying about customer deposits). I had doubts about elliptic curve digital signatures being safe enough to hold my money (I’m still thinking of using Lamport signatures in a multisig, as I trust them more), but I don’t see other serious problem with the system.
      - topranks 5y ago
        It’s a Ponzi scheme cos it’s not being used for purchasing goods and services. Bitcoins only value is it’s value relative to dollars, euros etc, which have purchasing power. So ultimately all the Bitcoin has to be converted back to dollars, euros etc for people to see a return on their investment. The only way to do that is to sell the Bitcoin to someone else who has dollars (presumably for more dollars than you bought the Bitcoin originally). So as the cycle continues each new generation of investors needs to find another bunch of suckers to offload their Bitcoin to and get their dollar reward. And they need that next set of people to consistently pay a higher price than they did. Eventually people will struggle to find buyers and be left holding the bag. This wouldn’t necessarily be the case if Bitcoin got used as a real currency. But that’s clearly not happening at this stage, people laugh at the idea of buying Pizza with it or whatever. So it’s just a Ponzi-like scheme. Tbh it’s more like a penny stock scam of old.
rasz 5y ago
They couldnt hear you over the sound of Capristo exhaust in the Lambo.

HKH2 5y ago

Because banks can get away with shutting down accounts for political reasons.

johndevor 5y ago

It's not "necessary" - it just is.

hotpotamus 5y ago

We all know the answer is greed.

epolanski 5y ago

"technological development". Don't we already have plenty of more efficient coins out there?

thathndude 5y ago
I’ve never understood the BTC purists. I’m generally anti-crypto in any variety, but As far as cryptocurrency‘s go, bitcoin is really bad compared to so many alternatives. I’d just as soon see it all go up in smoke. But why does BTC reign?
- bidirectional 5y ago
  This is what I find strangest. At least coins like Ethereum and Solana have entire ecosystems of complex projects being built up around them (no matter how skeptical one may be of those projects), Bitcoin seems like an incredibly spartan ecosystem with basically one use, and the sole advantage of being first.
  - nadahalli 5y ago
    That's the entire point. Bitcoin has just one use case, and it's very inefficient design is tailor-made for that one use case. Alt-coins have use cases that can all be solved by AWS. The inefficient design is er....inefficient for those applications.
  - landemva 5y ago
    Solana is a VC-backed centralized money grab.
- elliotec 5y ago
  Because it was first, and the word itself has permeated the psyche of society in ways that the other currencies haven't. People who know nothing at all about crypto buy into BTC because they've heard of it and heard it turns into money.
- tasha0663 5y ago
  It's the power of denial. The sunk cost is enormous.
- ohgodplsno 5y ago
  Because they don't give a single shit about the technology of it. All they're happy about is that their speculative asset keeps going up. They're grifters.
- walkhour 5y ago
  Bitcoin is more successful mainly due to network effects and proven security, Bitcoin has withstood more attacks than any other cryptocurrency.
topranks 5y ago
Proof-of-stake is a funny one. Means those with the most money control the money system. Might not be the best idea. Proof-of-work is an ecological disaster though. Cryptocurrency is not really a good idea IMO.

clippablematt 5y ago

I’d be willing to bet over the next five years we see the biggest most impactful developments for reforestation/carbon offsets/political lobbying for change/rewilding programs /etc will come from crypto groups, funded and organised by daos. It’s brewing already. I also think we’ll see bitcoin become a smaller part of crypto and pow being banned in some countries. It’s going to be an interesting decade.

walkhour 5y ago
According to this prediction market(https://www.metaculus.com/questions/5205/bitcoins-market-dominant-cryptocurrency https://www.metaculus.com/questions/5205/bitcoins-market-dom...) Bitcoin will lose its dominant position on Feb 13, 2025.

hihihihi1234 5y ago

People don't have faith in the mainstream financial system and are fleeing for the exits.

ls15 5y ago
It amazes me, how many people seem not to see this point
- not2b 5y ago
  But they aren't using BTC as a replacement for the financial system. Most buyers of BTC are using it much like the Dutch were using tulip bulbs: buy because the price (in real money) is going up. The exceptions are for illegal transactions or to pay off ransomware, and it isn't the best choice to do those either (other coins are better at hiding transactions).
- otterley 5y ago
  Because it's not actually happening, if you look at the amount of money invested in cryptocurrencies and their transaction volume for goods and services compared to fiat currencies.
  - ls15 5y ago
    Very few people watched videos online in 1999, but some people predicted video sites like Youtube back then already. Traditional media called them crazy. Nowadays, people are using barely anything else than the internet for watching videos.
    - topranks 5y ago
      The blockers back then were bandwidth and CPU/GPU power to watch online videos. As soon as the technology made it practical it took off like lightning. Bitcoin payments don’t have any such fundamental blockers. Anyone with a smartphone can send or receive Bitcoin easy. Yet acceptance of Bitcoin for payments has not taken off at all. If anything it’s declined in recent years.

xiphias2 5y ago

Sure, if you are serious, the Bitcoin Standard book is a worthy read. But what’s important is that Bitcoin solves the inflation problem, and proof of work is the only system that we have for getting rid of the Cantillon effect of modern banking: the closer people get to the top of the central banks, the richer they get and destroy life for those who don’t have access to the inner layers of central banking. With Bitcoin it’s really hard to make profit with mining, as there’s a perfect (otherwise useless) competition. Some altcoins are reintroducing the Cantillon effect using proof of stake, and of course the market will decide on which is the more efficient system.

endisneigh 5y ago
Inflation isn't a bad thing necessarily.
- not2b 5y ago
  Moderate inflation is good for debtors and keeps money circulating around the economy: those with savings can invest it in a way that keeps up with inflation. Deflation causes hoarding of money and economic collapse (like the Depression of the 1930s). Central banks try to manage inflation to keep is low but nonzero.
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    Can you explain how that Ponzi scheme works? I read parts of the source code before I invested in Bitcoin, and it looked to me like an open, honest system with easy-to-understand, clean code (unlike what Ponzi was doing, which is basically lying about customer deposits). I had doubts about elliptic curve digital signatures being safe enough to hold my money (I’m still thinking of using Lamport signatures in a multisig, as I trust them more), but I don’t see other serious problem with the system.
    - topranks 5y ago
      It’s a Ponzi scheme cos it’s not being used for purchasing goods and services. Bitcoins only value is it’s value relative to dollars, euros etc, which have purchasing power. So ultimately all the Bitcoin has to be converted back to dollars, euros etc for people to see a return on their investment. The only way to do that is to sell the Bitcoin to someone else who has dollars (presumably for more dollars than you bought the Bitcoin originally). So as the cycle continues each new generation of investors needs to find another bunch of suckers to offload their Bitcoin to and get their dollar reward. And they need that next set of people to consistently pay a higher price than they did. Eventually people will struggle to find buyers and be left holding the bag. This wouldn’t necessarily be the case if Bitcoin got used as a real currency. But that’s clearly not happening at this stage, people laugh at the idea of buying Pizza with it or whatever. So it’s just a Ponzi-like scheme. Tbh it’s more like a penny stock scam of old.

rasz 5y ago

They couldnt hear you over the sound of Capristo exhaust in the Lambo.