5 ms·

The Idiocy of Tiny Houses and Electric Vehicles

warlog 5y ago
"To live more sustainably, if you don’t need it, don’t buy it." This. But it flies in the face of sustainability(TM), which has been captured by corporations and is the new new for capitalism.
- LinuxBender 5y ago
  Very much this. I learned that life lesson a little late. Prior to moving I gave away 98+% of my things to neighbors and friends. I moved into a small home and forced myself to keep it free of clutter. I did not need all that stuff.
- blacksmith_tb 5y ago
  Certainly a good idea, but the average estimates I am seeing for the footprint of goods is 14% in the US[1]. So you wouldn't want to stop there. 1: https://www.nature.org/en-us/get-involved/how-to-help/carbon-footprint-calculator/ https://www.nature.org/en-us/get-involved/how-to-help/carbon...
- tacker2000 5y ago
  Buying and using less is not an option in our consumerism-centric world. Companies want to always sell you more, not less. So they are just adapting their products to be or appear more “sustainable”, however it fits their business, in order to keep selling more of the same stuff.
- imtringued 5y ago
  If you don't keep spending your entire income the interest rate will fall below zero. Our enlightened society has decided that an interest rate below zero is apparently defrauding savers while they can just get a certificate of deposit at 0% interest and therefore demands endless growth fueled by government debt. The best part is that the very same people demand that the government pay its debts back, at very high interest of course, which is completely illogical because paying debt reduces interest rates.
cblconfederate 5y ago
Wait till you see the combination of the two, Tiny Electric RVs.
- seg_lol 5y ago
  I am working on one right now. Solar powered, self driving. More of a planetarium on wheels with a memory foam bed. If I can get the active suspension right, it might be hard to tell you are moving.
  - skywal_l 5y ago
    My dream. Set the course and take a nap.
- fknorangesite 5y ago
  I think you just invented hashtag-vanlife bloggers.
- marssaxman 5y ago
  My partner and I left our 2000-sqft Seattle townhouse a few months ago to live on a 44-foot sailboat, which we are converting from a diesel motor to electric. Much the same idea, only more so! The space is cozy but sufficient.
shoulderfake 5y ago
Article starts off talking about homelessness. Those houses are for well off remote workers seeking a mix of nature and work space + instagram worthy shots.
jokethrowaway 5y ago
These are two entirely different situations. Tiny houses will never be practical for most people as people generally need indoor space to live. It's not a replacement for a house, it's something else, a luxury toy. Also, I don't get how such a small house in the middle of nowhere can be that expensive. Someone is profiting big time and you can get one for cheaper. Electrical cars are practical for most people. Who the hell routinely gets to the limit of a EV regularly? They're just too expensive for now and charging is not as widespread. Once more affordable models come out and chargers get installed everywhere they'll become the new standard.
- closeparen 5y ago
  A hundred million people took road trips for the holidays last month. They’re not all getting rentals.
- Gibbon1 5y ago
  "Also, I don't get how such a small house in the middle of nowhere can be that expensive." My belief is that utilities are expensive. Water, power, sewage. What costs $$$ to remodel? Bathrooms and kitchens. Then framing and drywall are cheap. And square footage goes up with the square of the wall length. So the marginal cost of more square feet is low. My feeling is if you're going to do tiny living spaces you want multifamily. And the last thing you want is McMansions in ultra low density suburbs.
jopsen 5y ago
Tiny living makes sense when remodeling a tiny downtown apartment to suit your needs -- saving you from having to buy a house or larger apartment. But tiny houses in the middle of nowhere makes no sense.. Same with EVs if you are otherwise naturally replacing your car, sure go EV, otherwise it's probably better to hold off.
kmac_ 5y ago
Umm, aren't those just modern holiday cabins?
bwanab 5y ago
The idiocy of badly interpreted statistics: “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars”. This kinda means that 80% don’t switch back. Given the current horrible state of EV charging, this sounds pretty reasonable. I don’t find it surprising that a number of people buy an EV, then realize that the charging environment doesn’t work for them.
- sidpatil 5y ago
  > “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars” Huh?
  - imtringued 5y ago
    “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars” “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars”
  - bwanab 5y ago
    Sorry, bad text copy on mobile.
- dlkf 5y ago
  Agreed, the use of stats is so terrible. I love this one: "43% report driving more once they go electric." So the people who buy these things end up using them? How is this an indictment of electric cars? It's rather unfortunate, because there is a really interesting cost-benefit analysis to be performed that compares the carbon footprint of assembling a new Nissan Leaf against the carbon footprint of driving your Civic for another 5-10 years. The analysis would have to be parameterized by the gas-mileage and age of your current car, the type of electric you intend on replacing it with, the carbon footprint of electricity in your region, and how much you drive. We'll have to find a pundit who isn't innumerate to write it.
  - djhn 5y ago
    Though not a write up per se, Engineering Explained has made several videos with reasonable estimates: https://youtu.be/L2IKCdnzl5k https://youtu.be/L2IKCdnzl5k https://youtu.be/MEqxaH47DTs https://youtu.be/MEqxaH47DTs https://youtu.be/Hatav_Rdnno https://youtu.be/Hatav_Rdnno
m0llusk 5y ago
People who buy homes that are too small for them or vehicles without enough range for their needs are not an indicator of fundamental problems with these products.
inglor_cz 5y ago
I would love to have a tiny house when I was 23 or so, with a price tag affordable for my then-income. Living there my whole life would be miserable, though.
sytelus 5y ago
I have been frequenting AirBnBs way too much and now I can attest to creativity of the owners to spin weaknesses into strengths. For example, when you ready "cozy" in the title, be careful. Similarly "views" never mean anything unless you actually see a photo from inside. Unfortunately AirBnB has no filters on things like shared heating, parking difficulties, long stair climbing, lack of lighting, coffee maker, toilettories and so on.
mitchbob 5y ago
Archived: https://archive.ph/fUkG8 https://archive.ph/fUkG8

"To live more sustainably, if you don’t need it, don’t buy it." This. But it flies in the face of sustainability(TM), which has been captured by corporations and is the new new for capitalism.

LinuxBender 5y ago
Very much this. I learned that life lesson a little late. Prior to moving I gave away 98+% of my things to neighbors and friends. I moved into a small home and forced myself to keep it free of clutter. I did not need all that stuff.
blacksmith_tb 5y ago
Certainly a good idea, but the average estimates I am seeing for the footprint of goods is 14% in the US[1]. So you wouldn't want to stop there. 1: https://www.nature.org/en-us/get-involved/how-to-help/carbon-footprint-calculator/ https://www.nature.org/en-us/get-involved/how-to-help/carbon...
tacker2000 5y ago
Buying and using less is not an option in our consumerism-centric world. Companies want to always sell you more, not less. So they are just adapting their products to be or appear more “sustainable”, however it fits their business, in order to keep selling more of the same stuff.
imtringued 5y ago
If you don't keep spending your entire income the interest rate will fall below zero. Our enlightened society has decided that an interest rate below zero is apparently defrauding savers while they can just get a certificate of deposit at 0% interest and therefore demands endless growth fueled by government debt. The best part is that the very same people demand that the government pay its debts back, at very high interest of course, which is completely illogical because paying debt reduces interest rates.

cblconfederate 5y ago

Wait till you see the combination of the two, Tiny Electric RVs.

seg_lol 5y ago
I am working on one right now. Solar powered, self driving. More of a planetarium on wheels with a memory foam bed. If I can get the active suspension right, it might be hard to tell you are moving.
- skywal_l 5y ago
  My dream. Set the course and take a nap.
fknorangesite 5y ago
I think you just invented hashtag-vanlife bloggers.
marssaxman 5y ago
My partner and I left our 2000-sqft Seattle townhouse a few months ago to live on a 44-foot sailboat, which we are converting from a diesel motor to electric. Much the same idea, only more so! The space is cozy but sufficient.

shoulderfake 5y ago

Article starts off talking about homelessness. Those houses are for well off remote workers seeking a mix of nature and work space + instagram worthy shots.

jokethrowaway 5y ago

These are two entirely different situations. Tiny houses will never be practical for most people as people generally need indoor space to live. It's not a replacement for a house, it's something else, a luxury toy. Also, I don't get how such a small house in the middle of nowhere can be that expensive. Someone is profiting big time and you can get one for cheaper. Electrical cars are practical for most people. Who the hell routinely gets to the limit of a EV regularly? They're just too expensive for now and charging is not as widespread. Once more affordable models come out and chargers get installed everywhere they'll become the new standard.

closeparen 5y ago
A hundred million people took road trips for the holidays last month. They’re not all getting rentals.
Gibbon1 5y ago
"Also, I don't get how such a small house in the middle of nowhere can be that expensive." My belief is that utilities are expensive. Water, power, sewage. What costs $$$ to remodel? Bathrooms and kitchens. Then framing and drywall are cheap. And square footage goes up with the square of the wall length. So the marginal cost of more square feet is low. My feeling is if you're going to do tiny living spaces you want multifamily. And the last thing you want is McMansions in ultra low density suburbs.

jopsen 5y ago

Tiny living makes sense when remodeling a tiny downtown apartment to suit your needs -- saving you from having to buy a house or larger apartment. But tiny houses in the middle of nowhere makes no sense.. Same with EVs if you are otherwise naturally replacing your car, sure go EV, otherwise it's probably better to hold off.

kmac_ 5y ago

Umm, aren't those just modern holiday cabins?

bwanab 5y ago

The idiocy of badly interpreted statistics: “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars”. This kinda means that 80% don’t switch back. Given the current horrible state of EV charging, this sounds pretty reasonable. I don’t find it surprising that a number of people buy an EV, then realize that the charging environment doesn’t work for them.

sidpatil 5y ago
> “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars” Huh?
- imtringued 5y ago
  “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars” “20% of electric car owners switch back to gas-powered cars”
- bwanab 5y ago
  Sorry, bad text copy on mobile.
dlkf 5y ago
Agreed, the use of stats is so terrible. I love this one: "43% report driving more once they go electric." So the people who buy these things end up using them? How is this an indictment of electric cars? It's rather unfortunate, because there is a really interesting cost-benefit analysis to be performed that compares the carbon footprint of assembling a new Nissan Leaf against the carbon footprint of driving your Civic for another 5-10 years. The analysis would have to be parameterized by the gas-mileage and age of your current car, the type of electric you intend on replacing it with, the carbon footprint of electricity in your region, and how much you drive. We'll have to find a pundit who isn't innumerate to write it.
- djhn 5y ago
  Though not a write up per se, Engineering Explained has made several videos with reasonable estimates: https://youtu.be/L2IKCdnzl5k https://youtu.be/L2IKCdnzl5k https://youtu.be/MEqxaH47DTs https://youtu.be/MEqxaH47DTs https://youtu.be/Hatav_Rdnno https://youtu.be/Hatav_Rdnno

m0llusk 5y ago

People who buy homes that are too small for them or vehicles without enough range for their needs are not an indicator of fundamental problems with these products.

inglor_cz 5y ago

I would love to have a tiny house when I was 23 or so, with a price tag affordable for my then-income. Living there my whole life would be miserable, though.

sytelus 5y ago

I have been frequenting AirBnBs way too much and now I can attest to creativity of the owners to spin weaknesses into strengths. For example, when you ready "cozy" in the title, be careful. Similarly "views" never mean anything unless you actually see a photo from inside. Unfortunately AirBnB has no filters on things like shared heating, parking difficulties, long stair climbing, lack of lighting, coffee maker, toilettories and so on.

mitchbob 5y ago

Archived: https://archive.ph/fUkG8 https://archive.ph/fUkG8