4 ms·

Mandated COVID-19 vaccination of individuals with the current EUA approved vaccines. The devil is in the details. The EUA designation was pushed through becaus

by bmeski 5y ago

Mandated COVID-19 vaccination of individuals with the current EUA approved vaccines. The devil is in the details. The EUA designation was pushed through because there was no other, "obvious" treatment (despite proven efficacy of a combination of prophylactic treatments). They are testing this thing on us. Even if it works I do not consent to be tested on.

mwattsun 5y ago
Where do you derive your right to consent or not? I could say I have the right to not have my body put in jail, but I have no basis for that.
- bmeski 5y ago
  Item 1 of the Nuremberg Code. "The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that, before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject, there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person, which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment."
  - mwattsun 5y ago
    The Code has not been officially accepted as law by any nation or as official ethics guidelines by any association. In fact, the Code's reference to Hippocratic duty to the individual patient and the need to provide information was not initially favored by the American Medical Association. Wikipedia First, you would have to find a jurisdiction that officially accepted the Nuremberg code and move there, second you would have to prove that the Covid vaccination program was a medical experiment and third you would have to explain why you accepted prior vaccinations that were part of a public health program (such as polio vaccinations) I reject your call to take a stand because I don't think there's anything to stand on or any right that I'm losing.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
  - dekhn 5y ago
    The current application of the vaccine at scale is not being done with "human subjects" (that research was already done, on consenting subjects). It doesn't apply in situations where the legal authority has authorized the treatment. Trotting out the nuremberg code for a vaccine intended to help reduce world suffering (that is being used in a moral ways) is in poor taste, in my opinion. It was written because Nazis were using Jewish and other people in scientific experiments that make vaccine trials look pleasant. Also, all the necessary information for you to make a decision according to the code has already been provided to you, and the US government (not sure about others) has a constitutionally supported right to mandate that you take a vaccine.
scrollaway 5y ago
As someone who actually tested a vaccine in phase 3 voluntarily, please do not put yourself in the same group as me. You got a jab hundreds of millions of people got. I got a jab a few thousand of people got. I got to install an app and log all sorts of things on it every couple days. You didn’t have to do that. You received a QR code to allow you to participate in a variety of things. I didn’t, and had to even-more-experimentally mix and match my untested vaccine with an EMA approved one so I could get a Covid safe ticket. I’m fine by the way.
- bmeski 5y ago
  Exactly, why didn’t we all get that? All I got was, “sit here for 15 minutes”. I don't remember that for any other vaccine I’ve ever taken.
  - scrollaway 5y ago
    I don't understand what else you were expecting. The 15 min wait is because some known side effects manifest within those 15 minutes. Everything else is either minor, or extremely rare, or both. The US has the VAERS system if you want more on side effect reporting, but your doctor is supposed to do the work. Either way, the vaccine was tested. That it didn't go through a 10 year trial period is because we didn't have the time. Will you suddenly explode or combust in 11 years? I can't prove you won't. I would happily put money on the negative though, care to wager?
  - gassiss 5y ago
    That's mostly to watch for allergic reactions, which if you get you need medical assistance asap. Nothing to do with the covid vaccine itself.
    - bmeski 5y ago
      So the vaccine that they inject into you, that would cause an allergic reaction, has nothing to do with the allergic reaction?

by bmeski 5y ago

mwattsun 5y ago

Where do you derive your right to consent or not? I could say I have the right to not have my body put in jail, but I have no basis for that.

bmeski 5y ago
Item 1 of the Nuremberg Code. "The voluntary consent of the human subject is absolutely essential. This means that the person involved should have legal capacity to give consent; should be so situated as to be able to exercise free power of choice, without the intervention of any element of force, fraud, deceit, duress, over-reaching, or other ulterior form of constraint or coercion; and should have sufficient knowledge and comprehension of the elements of the subject matter involved, as to enable him to make an understanding and enlightened decision. This latter element requires that, before the acceptance of an affirmative decision by the experimental subject, there should be made known to him the nature, duration, and purpose of the experiment; the method and means by which it is to be conducted; all inconveniences and hazards reasonably to be expected; and the effects upon his health or person, which may possibly come from his participation in the experiment."
- mwattsun 5y ago
  The Code has not been officially accepted as law by any nation or as official ethics guidelines by any association. In fact, the Code's reference to Hippocratic duty to the individual patient and the need to provide information was not initially favored by the American Medical Association. Wikipedia First, you would have to find a jurisdiction that officially accepted the Nuremberg code and move there, second you would have to prove that the Covid vaccination program was a medical experiment and third you would have to explain why you accepted prior vaccinations that were part of a public health program (such as polio vaccinations) I reject your call to take a stand because I don't think there's anything to stand on or any right that I'm losing.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- dekhn 5y ago
  The current application of the vaccine at scale is not being done with "human subjects" (that research was already done, on consenting subjects). It doesn't apply in situations where the legal authority has authorized the treatment. Trotting out the nuremberg code for a vaccine intended to help reduce world suffering (that is being used in a moral ways) is in poor taste, in my opinion. It was written because Nazis were using Jewish and other people in scientific experiments that make vaccine trials look pleasant. Also, all the necessary information for you to make a decision according to the code has already been provided to you, and the US government (not sure about others) has a constitutionally supported right to mandate that you take a vaccine.

scrollaway 5y ago

As someone who actually tested a vaccine in phase 3 voluntarily, please do not put yourself in the same group as me. You got a jab hundreds of millions of people got. I got a jab a few thousand of people got. I got to install an app and log all sorts of things on it every couple days. You didn’t have to do that. You received a QR code to allow you to participate in a variety of things. I didn’t, and had to even-more-experimentally mix and match my untested vaccine with an EMA approved one so I could get a Covid safe ticket. I’m fine by the way.

bmeski 5y ago
Exactly, why didn’t we all get that? All I got was, “sit here for 15 minutes”. I don't remember that for any other vaccine I’ve ever taken.
- scrollaway 5y ago
  I don't understand what else you were expecting. The 15 min wait is because some known side effects manifest within those 15 minutes. Everything else is either minor, or extremely rare, or both. The US has the VAERS system if you want more on side effect reporting, but your doctor is supposed to do the work. Either way, the vaccine was tested. That it didn't go through a 10 year trial period is because we didn't have the time. Will you suddenly explode or combust in 11 years? I can't prove you won't. I would happily put money on the negative though, care to wager?
- gassiss 5y ago
  That's mostly to watch for allergic reactions, which if you get you need medical assistance asap. Nothing to do with the covid vaccine itself.
  - bmeski 5y ago
    So the vaccine that they inject into you, that would cause an allergic reaction, has nothing to do with the allergic reaction?