5 ms·

Lots of people in this thread are arguing the "do the vaccines reduce spread thing" as justification for or against this policy. I don't think that even matters

Lots of people in this thread are arguing the "do the vaccines reduce spread thing" as justification for or against this policy. I don't think that even matters. These vaccines have risks that are not being opening discussed. There is an unprecedented systematic campaign of censorship, deception and propaganda aimed at people who question anything about these vaccines. Vaccine injuries are real. The performance of these vaccines are not meeting expectations. They should not be mandated, full stop. We need a system based on informed consent, not coercion.

simonh 5y ago
There have been extensive studies of the risks of these vaccines, both during their trials and after public use, and these studies are continuing. The regulators on several counties including the US have even publicly registered concerns about several of the vaccines, particularly the J&J single dose vaccine. None of these studies have been suppressed or censored, and they are ongoing and I see debate about them going on in the press and on forums like this all the time. Some social media platforms ban provably false statements on this and other topics, and sometimes those restrictions go too far. That is not the same thing as banning all public debate.
- peteradio 5y ago
  > That is not the same thing as banning all public debate. It is throwing water on discussion at critical times simultaneous to strong government intervention which resets the discussion to the new overton window. You don't need to ban public debate you just play talk to the hand and call anyone who disagrees with you probably racist and or russian dissonance.
- commandlinefan 5y ago
  > extensive studies of the risks of these vaccines How and when? This time last year (when trump said a vaccine was less than a year away) these same medical professionals were warning us that vaccine testing takes years in the best case.
  - hotz 5y ago
    Yep, they were crapping on the vaccines and now they're forcing people to take the same ones. People too easily forget what politicians spew. Critical thinking is lost on many.
  - simonh 5y ago
    This time last year my wife, a nurse here in the UK, had already had her first shot of the Pfizer vaccine.
  - lern_too_spel 5y ago
    Vaccine testing takes as long as it takes to expose enough of the trial participants to see a statistically significant difference between the test and control groups. There isn't a bioaccumulation issue because the vaccine isn't administered daily, so the only long term harms would show up in the time it takes systems to react to it, which would be on the order of days. We have clearly observed long term harm from infection, starting a few days after infection, but no such harm from the vaccine, except for very low rates of myocarditis in young men.
- crisdux 5y ago
  There have not been extensive studies. The original long term safety studies from the vaccine trials were stopped. There are huge issues in the original trials, they were not done with the rigor that we've come to expect from previous vaccines. There are plenty of examples of people who have disagreed with current vaccine policy and them being censored or destroyed- and have the bills to show for it! We even have emails from leaders of the federal government that show they engage in these tactics routinely. Honestly I don't know how people don't see these tactics being played every day. Your "side" is led by a man who claims "he is science" and anyone who disagrees with him is "disagreeing with science." Give me a break.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    This is absolute garbage. There are extensive, long-term trials, with results being published every day, on vaccine effectiveness for every vaccine and every variant from all sorts of public and private institutions all over the world. Do you even "do your own research"? There's new papers coming out that you can read on /r/covid19, easily summarized and explained, and they all points towards similar conclusions over and over again. This idea that "there are huge issues" seems to be a repeated meme without any epidemiological basis.
    - fit2rule 5y ago

simonh 5y ago

There have been extensive studies of the risks of these vaccines, both during their trials and after public use, and these studies are continuing. The regulators on several counties including the US have even publicly registered concerns about several of the vaccines, particularly the J&J single dose vaccine. None of these studies have been suppressed or censored, and they are ongoing and I see debate about them going on in the press and on forums like this all the time. Some social media platforms ban provably false statements on this and other topics, and sometimes those restrictions go too far. That is not the same thing as banning all public debate.

peteradio 5y ago
> That is not the same thing as banning all public debate. It is throwing water on discussion at critical times simultaneous to strong government intervention which resets the discussion to the new overton window. You don't need to ban public debate you just play talk to the hand and call anyone who disagrees with you probably racist and or russian dissonance.
commandlinefan 5y ago
> extensive studies of the risks of these vaccines How and when? This time last year (when trump said a vaccine was less than a year away) these same medical professionals were warning us that vaccine testing takes years in the best case.
- hotz 5y ago
  Yep, they were crapping on the vaccines and now they're forcing people to take the same ones. People too easily forget what politicians spew. Critical thinking is lost on many.
- simonh 5y ago
  This time last year my wife, a nurse here in the UK, had already had her first shot of the Pfizer vaccine.
- lern_too_spel 5y ago
  Vaccine testing takes as long as it takes to expose enough of the trial participants to see a statistically significant difference between the test and control groups. There isn't a bioaccumulation issue because the vaccine isn't administered daily, so the only long term harms would show up in the time it takes systems to react to it, which would be on the order of days. We have clearly observed long term harm from infection, starting a few days after infection, but no such harm from the vaccine, except for very low rates of myocarditis in young men.
crisdux 5y ago
There have not been extensive studies. The original long term safety studies from the vaccine trials were stopped. There are huge issues in the original trials, they were not done with the rigor that we've come to expect from previous vaccines. There are plenty of examples of people who have disagreed with current vaccine policy and them being censored or destroyed- and have the bills to show for it! We even have emails from leaders of the federal government that show they engage in these tactics routinely. Honestly I don't know how people don't see these tactics being played every day. Your "side" is led by a man who claims "he is science" and anyone who disagrees with him is "disagreeing with science." Give me a break.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  This is absolute garbage. There are extensive, long-term trials, with results being published every day, on vaccine effectiveness for every vaccine and every variant from all sorts of public and private institutions all over the world. Do you even "do your own research"? There's new papers coming out that you can read on /r/covid19, easily summarized and explained, and they all points towards similar conclusions over and over again. This idea that "there are huge issues" seems to be a repeated meme without any epidemiological basis.
  - fit2rule 5y ago