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There’s an Antarctic research station of entirely triple vaxxed people that is on complete lockdown now because most of them have Covid. I know 22 people who h

There’s an Antarctic research station of entirely triple vaxxed people that is on complete lockdown now because most of them have Covid. I know 22 people who have gotten positive tests in the last two weeks, all vaccinated. Sports leagues practically 100% vaccinated and dozens and dozens and dozens of players out for Covid. I do not believe for one second any public health data today claiming only 1/5 new cases are vaccinated.

moneywoes 5y ago
Rip the nba has been decimated by the virus. At what point do we just accept it?
- klyrs 5y ago
  Acceptance is not just giving up. Minimizing harm is the current goal.
SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
Wait, do I understand this correctly that because you have heard of cases happening in vaccinated people, without studying them as broad populations, you think there isn’t a statistical difference in vaccinated and unvaccinated people as a population? Why?
- NoblePublius 5y ago
  - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
    Um… I think we have a fundamental disagreement on what sources of information we cite! Do you have non-governmental sources of information we can mutually agree upon to discuss instead? Thank you!
    - NoblePublius 5y ago
      - decebalus1 5y ago
      - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. They're repetitive, tedious, and usually turn nasty. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: it looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of what you're battling for, because it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. We ban accounts that do it, so please stop doing it.
- dekhn 5y ago
  While I understand where you are coming from, pretty much all the observational evidence is pointing to vaccines not being particularly effective against omicron, which seems to explain the data we are seeing (massive surge in infections and hospitalizations). That alone is enough information to reasonably conclude that the vaccine does not provide a high level of protection against omicron, even if we are nto doing a large-N population comparison.
  - huntertwo 5y ago
    Another explanation, the one that's more probable, is that omicron is much more infectious than the previous variants. Actual studies that look at evidence and test hypotheses seem to suggest that mRNA vaccines are effective.
    - lordloki 5y ago
      Those studies don't really exist yet for Omicron, so you are working on faith not science.
      - huntertwo 5y ago
        Nope, here is a study https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270
roganp 5y ago
If nearly %100 of the nba is vaccinated, then it's more likely that the break thru cases will outnumber the cases on the un-vaccinated, even if the vaccine is very effective at preventing infection. The vaccine does not need to be %100 effective for it to make sense from a public policy perspective.
- NoblePublius 5y ago
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  we also have multiple cases of players lying about vaccination status
decebalus1 5y ago
So is the WA state data invalid/faked/wrong? I mean this is literally a handful of anecdotes vs the department of health's data. Data showing similar results as in both nationwide and other countries (global level conspiracy I guess?). It's like me saying 'I can't believe for a second that Biden won the elections because everyone I know voted for Trump'
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
solarengineer 5y ago
Some months ago, I had to explain to some folks in my neighbourhood that a vaccine is not like some "magic shield" that we see in video games. A vaccine (mRNA or based on an inactive virus) teaches our body to create anti-bodies. The virus enters the body, the body creates anti-bodies, the virus is dealt with. The vaccine efficacy (how well it teaches the body) and the body's own anti-body efficacy (how effective the anti-bodies are against the virus) also have a role to play. Thus, a vaccinated person can still be infected, and can even spread the virus around. The sooner the virus is dealt with within their body, the sooner they no longer have a virus to spread. Isolation helps sooner, too. It is therefore possible for a triple vaccinated person to still get infected and to test positive for the infection. Among various benefits of being vaccinated are the lowered load on hospital staff. The number of hospital beds and even oxygen cylinders does not matter as much as the availability of hospital staff. This pandemic helped highlight that around the world, there are already only a limited number of doctors and nurses, and that both of them are already over-worked. For e.g., I did not know that 30-hour shifts are considered normal. It got me thinking that I wouldn't want to risk receiving care from an over-worked and tired medical care giver whose judgement might have been impaired from sheer exhaustion. Many of us vaccinated people are now able to safely isolate at home when we are infected with the Covid virus. We rush to hospitals only when the anti-bodies that we create are unable to deal with the Covid 19 virus. Over-worked hospital staff thus focus on a far lesser number of patients. There are now more beds available for those who need them. These included those vaccinated but ill enough to require external medical care, not-yet vaccinated, vaccine-hesitant, those who can't be vaccinated, those who won't be vaccinated. Really, this pandemic won't truly end until we isolate and end the spread of the virus. Being vaccinated planet-wide and reducing the load on the hospital is our next best bet to ensure that those who need the medical care have less-overworked staff and beds and oxygen cylinders. The various successful track record of anti-vaxx conspiracies, the true stories of the greed of medical companies/hospitals, the CIA messing with the polio vaccine in Pakistan + Afghanistan, the might-is-right approach by which some countries grab vaccines and waste them while other countries do not receive even a single dose, the hiding of data to save "face" and reputation, the political attacks based on data, politicians speaking up instead of scientists, scientists not knowing how to speak to media, media irresponsibly reporting news - all of these contribute to a general decline in the acceptance of vaccines. In my lifetime, polio was almost-eradicated. Smallpox was eradicated even earlier. I am hopeful that in time, we'll all pull up our socks and eradicate Covid-19 as well.
micromacrofoot 5y ago
“i’ve heard of ~100 cases therefore statistical data feels irrelevant”

moneywoes 5y ago

Rip the nba has been decimated by the virus. At what point do we just accept it?

klyrs 5y ago
Acceptance is not just giving up. Minimizing harm is the current goal.

SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago

Wait, do I understand this correctly that because you have heard of cases happening in vaccinated people, without studying them as broad populations, you think there isn’t a statistical difference in vaccinated and unvaccinated people as a population? Why?

NoblePublius 5y ago
- SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
  Um… I think we have a fundamental disagreement on what sources of information we cite! Do you have non-governmental sources of information we can mutually agree upon to discuss instead? Thank you!
  - NoblePublius 5y ago
    - decebalus1 5y ago
    - SamoyedFurFluff 5y ago
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't take HN threads on generic flamewar tangents. They're repetitive, tedious, and usually turn nasty. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: it looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed here, regardless of what you're battling for, because it destroys what this site is supposed to be for. We ban accounts that do it, so please stop doing it.
dekhn 5y ago
While I understand where you are coming from, pretty much all the observational evidence is pointing to vaccines not being particularly effective against omicron, which seems to explain the data we are seeing (massive surge in infections and hospitalizations). That alone is enough information to reasonably conclude that the vaccine does not provide a high level of protection against omicron, even if we are nto doing a large-N population comparison.
- huntertwo 5y ago
  Another explanation, the one that's more probable, is that omicron is much more infectious than the previous variants. Actual studies that look at evidence and test hypotheses seem to suggest that mRNA vaccines are effective.
  - lordloki 5y ago
    Those studies don't really exist yet for Omicron, so you are working on faith not science.
    - huntertwo 5y ago
      Nope, here is a study https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2119270

roganp 5y ago

If nearly %100 of the nba is vaccinated, then it's more likely that the break thru cases will outnumber the cases on the un-vaccinated, even if the vaccine is very effective at preventing infection. The vaccine does not need to be %100 effective for it to make sense from a public policy perspective.

NoblePublius 5y ago
micromacrofoot 5y ago
we also have multiple cases of players lying about vaccination status

decebalus1 5y ago

So is the WA state data invalid/faked/wrong? I mean this is literally a handful of anecdotes vs the department of health's data. Data showing similar results as in both nationwide and other countries (global level conspiracy I guess?). It's like me saying 'I can't believe for a second that Biden won the elections because everyone I know voted for Trump'

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

solarengineer 5y ago

Some months ago, I had to explain to some folks in my neighbourhood that a vaccine is not like some "magic shield" that we see in video games. A vaccine (mRNA or based on an inactive virus) teaches our body to create anti-bodies. The virus enters the body, the body creates anti-bodies, the virus is dealt with. The vaccine efficacy (how well it teaches the body) and the body's own anti-body efficacy (how effective the anti-bodies are against the virus) also have a role to play. Thus, a vaccinated person can still be infected, and can even spread the virus around. The sooner the virus is dealt with within their body, the sooner they no longer have a virus to spread. Isolation helps sooner, too. It is therefore possible for a triple vaccinated person to still get infected and to test positive for the infection. Among various benefits of being vaccinated are the lowered load on hospital staff. The number of hospital beds and even oxygen cylinders does not matter as much as the availability of hospital staff. This pandemic helped highlight that around the world, there are already only a limited number of doctors and nurses, and that both of them are already over-worked. For e.g., I did not know that 30-hour shifts are considered normal. It got me thinking that I wouldn't want to risk receiving care from an over-worked and tired medical care giver whose judgement might have been impaired from sheer exhaustion. Many of us vaccinated people are now able to safely isolate at home when we are infected with the Covid virus. We rush to hospitals only when the anti-bodies that we create are unable to deal with the Covid 19 virus. Over-worked hospital staff thus focus on a far lesser number of patients. There are now more beds available for those who need them. These included those vaccinated but ill enough to require external medical care, not-yet vaccinated, vaccine-hesitant, those who can't be vaccinated, those who won't be vaccinated. Really, this pandemic won't truly end until we isolate and end the spread of the virus. Being vaccinated planet-wide and reducing the load on the hospital is our next best bet to ensure that those who need the medical care have less-overworked staff and beds and oxygen cylinders. The various successful track record of anti-vaxx conspiracies, the true stories of the greed of medical companies/hospitals, the CIA messing with the polio vaccine in Pakistan + Afghanistan, the might-is-right approach by which some countries grab vaccines and waste them while other countries do not receive even a single dose, the hiding of data to save "face" and reputation, the political attacks based on data, politicians speaking up instead of scientists, scientists not knowing how to speak to media, media irresponsibly reporting news - all of these contribute to a general decline in the acceptance of vaccines. In my lifetime, polio was almost-eradicated. Smallpox was eradicated even earlier. I am hopeful that in time, we'll all pull up our socks and eradicate Covid-19 as well.

micromacrofoot 5y ago

“i’ve heard of ~100 cases therefore statistical data feels irrelevant”