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Most of the things you mentioned here is why I like Japan more han the Western world. To be fair, Japan isn’t perfect. But a lot of things make sense for us.

Most of the things you mentioned here is why I like Japan more han the Western world. To be fair, Japan isn’t perfect. But a lot of things make sense for us. Are you a westerner? It seems that your way of thinking is just different than ours. We value things differently. For example, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? The western world has a lot of problems too. And its a choice that the western world makes. We make our choice according to our values. This is what we prefer. Harmony takes the first place. Harmony over diversity. We like diversity too but harmony always comes first. Harmony first, diversity later, when we need it. I can talk a lot about this.

ipiz0618 5y ago
I wanted to comment, but deleted them since you've described my thoughts seeing the parent comment. All I'm going to say is I'm not a "Westerner" so I don't view things in the western perspective.
- poisonarena 5y ago
  ehhh if you are spending time commenting on hacker news you are a westerner
88840-8855 5y ago
Please don't misunderstand me. Maybe I wasn't precise enough with my thoughts. My main point was: Western people are often pro Japan but anti China. If people would apply the same norms, this wouldn't be possible as there is clearly a double standard. My wish is that Western people (i am one of then) stop apply their world view, norms and values to everyone else on this planet. We believe that so many things that define us are universal and we expect that all people around the world start demanding that and thinking that. I totally understand your pointed that harmony, order, hierarchy works for you and many other countries. I respect that - however I like many Western norms better because they work better for me. It doesn't mean that I want that Japan or China stop behaving the way they behave. I am an advocate for your points.
- mrkentutbabi 5y ago
  Fair enough. I agree with that. The westerners like to idolize Japan compared to China. I do think sometimes it is unfair. On the other hand. I think Japan is trying to have a good balance between western style democracy with harmony, hence Japan is not as totalitarian as China. Due to bushido culture, Japanese individuals have more shame built-in so it is easier to have a homogeneous society compared to China, to the point that this bushido culture is sometimes frowned by westerners. Each society makes their own laws and values, with its pros and cons, and it is reflected differently.
- christophilus 5y ago
  I’m one of those people. Japan and China are quite different. I really liked visiting Japan. I really did not enjoy visiting China at all. The two cultures are not as similar as you imply, and the differences matter, at least to me.
  - mrkentutbabi 5y ago
    If you are just visiting, you won’t see much similaries. Japanese also consider non Japanese (or more precisely, non Asian looking), to have different norms than us so we treat them differently. Its an internal barrier that homogeneous society make. We will be polite about it but forever we will consider you a foreigner.
- ciphol 5y ago
  My experience is that Western people are generally against the Chinese government, not the Chinese culture. The Chinese government is currently authoritarian, expansionist, and genocidal. Japan's government is none of these things (it was all of them back in WW2, and then it received the same hostility that China's does now).
  - 88840-8855 5y ago
    Well, Western people generally dont know ANYTHING about Chinese culture. Ask them to name 3 pop stars, 3 polititians, 3 Chinese brands, 3 cities (excpet Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong), 3 rivers, 3 philosophers and 3 Chinese concepts. And YET, they have an opinion on China.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
luma 5y ago
> maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? Great, good for them, everything should work out. It's not the women who want to be subservient to men that I'm worried about, it's the ones who don't. Japanese society doesn't leave a lot of room for them and I don't think that's OK.
- mrkentutbabi 5y ago
  You can’t please everyone. That’s the whole point of diversity vs harmony. Besides, Japan doesn’t go around killing opeople who don’t adhere to their society. Please think about this hard as lonng, philosophically. To answer your question. Yes we have a lot of single women, doing careers instead of doing families just fine.
  - luma 5y ago
    > Japan doesn’t go around killing opeople who don’t adhere to their society. This is a pretty recent development in Japan's history and the world hasn't forgotten. And for those those single women - why not also married women? How many of them are CEOs? The numbers don't look good for women in Japan when it comes to representation in the higher levels of business https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889158321000423 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915832...
    - Seb-C 5y ago
      > This is a pretty recent development in Japan's history and the world hasn't forgotten. What do you mean? No, it's not. With the exception of WW2, Japan has seen way less conflicts and very little wars in it's history compared to other countries. As for your link, I cannot access the source, but your comment seems biased by the meaning of marriage in the first place. Basically, in Japan getting married means starting a family. If you don't plan to have children, you usually don't get married. Because if you remove the cultural and sentimental value given to the act of being married in the west, there is not much practical advantage or benefit to it in the first place.
ausbah 5y ago
>For example, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? how can you know this for certain? if Japanese culture writ large is "woman should be homemakers", and most Japanese women become homemakers due to societal pressures of cultural conformity - not ever having the opportunity to freely consider alternatives - is that really a "preference"?
- mrkentutbabi 5y ago
  I already know the repliers will answer like this. See my other comments.
dymk 5y ago
> consider that maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? This obviously can’t be true for all Japanese women, so what’s your solution to that? At least in Western countries there is progress being put towards letting women chose if they’d rather be a housewife or an independent person. In Japan there is no such option.
- mrkentutbabi 5y ago
  Please see my other comments. Diversity vs harmony.
  - dymk 5y ago
    That's not an answer, nor do your other comments answer on the happiness of those who don't want to be a housewife. Reading between the lines, your answer so far is "Sucks to be them".
    - mrkentutbabi 5y ago
      I answered, in Japan there are plenty of single women doing career and they do just fine. Is that not the answer you’re looking for? Do you seem to know what’s best for our country?

ipiz0618 5y ago

I wanted to comment, but deleted them since you've described my thoughts seeing the parent comment. All I'm going to say is I'm not a "Westerner" so I don't view things in the western perspective.

poisonarena 5y ago
ehhh if you are spending time commenting on hacker news you are a westerner

88840-8855 5y ago

Please don't misunderstand me. Maybe I wasn't precise enough with my thoughts. My main point was: Western people are often pro Japan but anti China. If people would apply the same norms, this wouldn't be possible as there is clearly a double standard. My wish is that Western people (i am one of then) stop apply their world view, norms and values to everyone else on this planet. We believe that so many things that define us are universal and we expect that all people around the world start demanding that and thinking that. I totally understand your pointed that harmony, order, hierarchy works for you and many other countries. I respect that - however I like many Western norms better because they work better for me. It doesn't mean that I want that Japan or China stop behaving the way they behave. I am an advocate for your points.

mrkentutbabi 5y ago
Fair enough. I agree with that. The westerners like to idolize Japan compared to China. I do think sometimes it is unfair. On the other hand. I think Japan is trying to have a good balance between western style democracy with harmony, hence Japan is not as totalitarian as China. Due to bushido culture, Japanese individuals have more shame built-in so it is easier to have a homogeneous society compared to China, to the point that this bushido culture is sometimes frowned by westerners. Each society makes their own laws and values, with its pros and cons, and it is reflected differently.
christophilus 5y ago
I’m one of those people. Japan and China are quite different. I really liked visiting Japan. I really did not enjoy visiting China at all. The two cultures are not as similar as you imply, and the differences matter, at least to me.
- mrkentutbabi 5y ago
  If you are just visiting, you won’t see much similaries. Japanese also consider non Japanese (or more precisely, non Asian looking), to have different norms than us so we treat them differently. Its an internal barrier that homogeneous society make. We will be polite about it but forever we will consider you a foreigner.
ciphol 5y ago
My experience is that Western people are generally against the Chinese government, not the Chinese culture. The Chinese government is currently authoritarian, expansionist, and genocidal. Japan's government is none of these things (it was all of them back in WW2, and then it received the same hostility that China's does now).
- 88840-8855 5y ago
  Well, Western people generally dont know ANYTHING about Chinese culture. Ask them to name 3 pop stars, 3 polititians, 3 Chinese brands, 3 cities (excpet Beijing, Shanghai and Hong Kong), 3 rivers, 3 philosophers and 3 Chinese concepts. And YET, they have an opinion on China.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

luma 5y ago

> maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? Great, good for them, everything should work out. It's not the women who want to be subservient to men that I'm worried about, it's the ones who don't. Japanese society doesn't leave a lot of room for them and I don't think that's OK.

mrkentutbabi 5y ago
You can’t please everyone. That’s the whole point of diversity vs harmony. Besides, Japan doesn’t go around killing opeople who don’t adhere to their society. Please think about this hard as lonng, philosophically. To answer your question. Yes we have a lot of single women, doing careers instead of doing families just fine.
- luma 5y ago
  > Japan doesn’t go around killing opeople who don’t adhere to their society. This is a pretty recent development in Japan's history and the world hasn't forgotten. And for those those single women - why not also married women? How many of them are CEOs? The numbers don't look good for women in Japan when it comes to representation in the higher levels of business https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0889158321000423 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S088915832...
  - Seb-C 5y ago
    > This is a pretty recent development in Japan's history and the world hasn't forgotten. What do you mean? No, it's not. With the exception of WW2, Japan has seen way less conflicts and very little wars in it's history compared to other countries. As for your link, I cannot access the source, but your comment seems biased by the meaning of marriage in the first place. Basically, in Japan getting married means starting a family. If you don't plan to have children, you usually don't get married. Because if you remove the cultural and sentimental value given to the act of being married in the west, there is not much practical advantage or benefit to it in the first place.

ausbah 5y ago

>For example, have you ever stopped to consider that maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? how can you know this for certain? if Japanese culture writ large is "woman should be homemakers", and most Japanese women become homemakers due to societal pressures of cultural conformity - not ever having the opportunity to freely consider alternatives - is that really a "preference"?

mrkentutbabi 5y ago
I already know the repliers will answer like this. See my other comments.

dymk 5y ago

> consider that maybe Japanese woman prefer to be in traditional role? This obviously can’t be true for all Japanese women, so what’s your solution to that? At least in Western countries there is progress being put towards letting women chose if they’d rather be a housewife or an independent person. In Japan there is no such option.

mrkentutbabi 5y ago
Please see my other comments. Diversity vs harmony.
- dymk 5y ago
  That's not an answer, nor do your other comments answer on the happiness of those who don't want to be a housewife. Reading between the lines, your answer so far is "Sucks to be them".
  - mrkentutbabi 5y ago
    I answered, in Japan there are plenty of single women doing career and they do just fine. Is that not the answer you’re looking for? Do you seem to know what’s best for our country?