4 ms·

> The biggest issues are crowding and racism That's surprising to hear. I have lived in Tokyo a fair amount of time (5+ years) and only experienced true racism

> The biggest issues are crowding and racism That's surprising to hear. I have lived in Tokyo a fair amount of time (5+ years) and only experienced true racism, e.g. being not being allowed in a place for being non-Japanese, a handful of times, and those were mostly for what would be considered nighttime establishment that are a bit shady. Not doubting your experience, just putting this here as another data point. Most of the times being treated differently was just other people being scared of talking English and avoiding me, but that usually fixed itself when they realize I speak Japanese. Unrelated, but I think a lot of the foreigners in Tokyo are oversensitive to racism because they have never experienced looking different in their own country - that leads itself to interpreting all kinds of tiny acts as racist when something doesn't go the way they want. But in reality many of the acts have a different cause behind them, like the insecurity of the other person. EDIT: Clarification

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
Do snack bars in any Japanese town/city allow foreigners? I mean, I get it, these aren’t places foreigners should be going, but their forbidden nature always raises eyebrows.
- makotobestgirl 5y ago
  True, I could imagine snacks to be among the places where you have problems going as a foreigner. It probably just depends on the owner. I haven't been to many, so I can't really speak to that. I tried a few times and had no trouble getting in, but I was with Japanese friends. May have been a different story if I had been alone.
  - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
    The ones in resort towns seem to always have “no foreigners” signs in English…I guess to avoid having any awkward denials at all. Seems perfectly legal to not serve foreigners, in any case.
    - makotobestgirl 5y ago
      I haven't really seen many of those signs in Tokyo. I could imagine that in resort towns they want to keep tourists out? Having tourists who don't understand what those places is asking for trouble I guess.
      - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
        I’m sure the snack bars cater to Japanese tourists, these are resort towns and the snack bars line the main tourist streets. But the fact that they also attract a few foreign tourists (because we also enjoy onsens) they need the signs.
    - rootsudo 5y ago
      I get away with it by saying I'm Hafu, and then asking if it's for me. Once you ask, and you are fluent in Japanese enough, they don't care. This is not to say there is no racism in Japan, but for resorts it's most likely they don't have the capacity to help in English/Foreign Language. If it's some seedy thing, like a cheap/seedy bar, karaoke, J/KTV or sexual services then it's both, no English and they want discretion.
- kstenerud 5y ago
  I made friends with some Yakuza while I was there, and after awhile I would get invited to some of these places sometimes. You REALLY need to be careful hanging around them though, and don't get dragged into their shit. They usually keep that separate, but it's not guaranteed. Also, you're expected to be on your BEST behaviour. DO NOT EMBARRASS PEOPLE, because the responsible person will suffer for it (not you, but please, don't be a dick). Actually, if you want to get a peek at what the underbelly looks like (with a lot of creative license of course), check out "The Naked Director". It was quite refreshing compared to the regular pablum of Japanese television.
- brigandish 5y ago
  > I mean, I get it, these aren’t places foreigners should be going, but their forbidden nature always raises eyebrows. Snack bars aren't anything forbidden or erotic, they're bars where women are employed to speak to the customers and entertain them (again, not in an erotic way), that's it. I live in a suburb with lots of them around, it's not some kind of red light district filled with brothels, they're just bars I pass that usually have badly sung karaoke blasting out. I also don't understand the replies you're getting as they seem to have run with this misconception, I can't be sure these people have even visited Japan!
  - simdsimp 5y ago
cameronh90 5y ago
Maybe it's just me but racism on the level of being kicked out of places for being non-Japanese a handful of times in 5 years sounds terrible. Even once is insane. I'm white so don't have any personal experience, but my partner is a brown immigrant to the UK and has experienced nothing even remotely close to that anywhere she's been in UK or Europe.
- makotobestgirl 5y ago
  I guess that's true. It wasn't really kicked out (just edited it to clarify) but rather not being allowed in - It's probably also important to note that most of these places, except one, were what you would call nighttime establishments a bit on the shadier side. So we're not talking about restaurants or anything like that.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    Somewhere like the Golden Gai, I'd absolutely expect that a Westerner would be waved away from some places. Some may even have signs up although I don't specifically remember.
- bluepizza 5y ago
  If those places were kicking him out, it’s probably because they were very shady. Criminal gangs hangouts, scammer hangouts, sex worker meetup places. There is your occasional nutjob small business owner that also kicks foreigners out, but that’s actually quite rare. But this is the racism that Western people suffer. Chinese people, especially mainlanders, are targetted quite badly.
  - deltaonefour 5y ago
    Hah, I should mention, I'm a westerner, but I'm ethnically Chinese. I look Chinese but I can't read or speak Chinese. This type of targeting is def an important factor against not going to japan.
    - 5y ago
jonpurdy 5y ago
Exact same thing in South Korea. Folks afraid of embarrassing themselves with their English, but once you speak Korean (and look presentable) it's not a problem. Funny thing about the oversensitivity to racism: many foreigners assume racism, but if they understood Korean they'd figure out that either they're not the topic of discussion, or the locals are gossiping or speaking the same way they would about a local Korean person as well.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

Do snack bars in any Japanese town/city allow foreigners? I mean, I get it, these aren’t places foreigners should be going, but their forbidden nature always raises eyebrows.

makotobestgirl 5y ago
True, I could imagine snacks to be among the places where you have problems going as a foreigner. It probably just depends on the owner. I haven't been to many, so I can't really speak to that. I tried a few times and had no trouble getting in, but I was with Japanese friends. May have been a different story if I had been alone.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  The ones in resort towns seem to always have “no foreigners” signs in English…I guess to avoid having any awkward denials at all. Seems perfectly legal to not serve foreigners, in any case.
  - makotobestgirl 5y ago
    I haven't really seen many of those signs in Tokyo. I could imagine that in resort towns they want to keep tourists out? Having tourists who don't understand what those places is asking for trouble I guess.
    - seanmcdirmid 5y ago
      I’m sure the snack bars cater to Japanese tourists, these are resort towns and the snack bars line the main tourist streets. But the fact that they also attract a few foreign tourists (because we also enjoy onsens) they need the signs.
  - rootsudo 5y ago
    I get away with it by saying I'm Hafu, and then asking if it's for me. Once you ask, and you are fluent in Japanese enough, they don't care. This is not to say there is no racism in Japan, but for resorts it's most likely they don't have the capacity to help in English/Foreign Language. If it's some seedy thing, like a cheap/seedy bar, karaoke, J/KTV or sexual services then it's both, no English and they want discretion.
kstenerud 5y ago
I made friends with some Yakuza while I was there, and after awhile I would get invited to some of these places sometimes. You REALLY need to be careful hanging around them though, and don't get dragged into their shit. They usually keep that separate, but it's not guaranteed. Also, you're expected to be on your BEST behaviour. DO NOT EMBARRASS PEOPLE, because the responsible person will suffer for it (not you, but please, don't be a dick). Actually, if you want to get a peek at what the underbelly looks like (with a lot of creative license of course), check out "The Naked Director". It was quite refreshing compared to the regular pablum of Japanese television.
brigandish 5y ago
> I mean, I get it, these aren’t places foreigners should be going, but their forbidden nature always raises eyebrows. Snack bars aren't anything forbidden or erotic, they're bars where women are employed to speak to the customers and entertain them (again, not in an erotic way), that's it. I live in a suburb with lots of them around, it's not some kind of red light district filled with brothels, they're just bars I pass that usually have badly sung karaoke blasting out. I also don't understand the replies you're getting as they seem to have run with this misconception, I can't be sure these people have even visited Japan!
- simdsimp 5y ago

cameronh90 5y ago

Maybe it's just me but racism on the level of being kicked out of places for being non-Japanese a handful of times in 5 years sounds terrible. Even once is insane. I'm white so don't have any personal experience, but my partner is a brown immigrant to the UK and has experienced nothing even remotely close to that anywhere she's been in UK or Europe.

makotobestgirl 5y ago
I guess that's true. It wasn't really kicked out (just edited it to clarify) but rather not being allowed in - It's probably also important to note that most of these places, except one, were what you would call nighttime establishments a bit on the shadier side. So we're not talking about restaurants or anything like that.
- ghaff 5y ago
  Somewhere like the Golden Gai, I'd absolutely expect that a Westerner would be waved away from some places. Some may even have signs up although I don't specifically remember.
bluepizza 5y ago
If those places were kicking him out, it’s probably because they were very shady. Criminal gangs hangouts, scammer hangouts, sex worker meetup places. There is your occasional nutjob small business owner that also kicks foreigners out, but that’s actually quite rare. But this is the racism that Western people suffer. Chinese people, especially mainlanders, are targetted quite badly.
- deltaonefour 5y ago
  Hah, I should mention, I'm a westerner, but I'm ethnically Chinese. I look Chinese but I can't read or speak Chinese. This type of targeting is def an important factor against not going to japan.
  - 5y ago

jonpurdy 5y ago

Exact same thing in South Korea. Folks afraid of embarrassing themselves with their English, but once you speak Korean (and look presentable) it's not a problem. Funny thing about the oversensitivity to racism: many foreigners assume racism, but if they understood Korean they'd figure out that either they're not the topic of discussion, or the locals are gossiping or speaking the same way they would about a local Korean person as well.