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They could start by not terminating perfectly capable doctors and nurses who have decided, for whatever their reasons may be, to refuse vaccination. I’m vaccina

They could start by not terminating perfectly capable doctors and nurses who have decided, for whatever their reasons may be, to refuse vaccination. I’m vaccinated (and boosted) but I cannot understand why it was okay for these people to be on the frontlines of the fight for over a year but suddenly they are no longer acceptable. And I find no convincing argument as to why actually recovering from infection counts for nothing, but the vaccine does. The decision to terminate unvaccinated individuals reeks of bureaucracy, not an understanding of science or medicine.

Spooky23 5y ago
It’s pretty simple. They are more likely to get sick and more likely to infect those whose care they are entrusted with. There’s a long history of this type of sanction. If you are a provider or nurse in a hospital who fails to get a measles, hepatitis, or rabies (after exposure) shot, you’ll be terminated for cause in many places. The reason why recovery doesn’t “count” the same as vaccination is that immunity doesn’t last very long - 60-90 days typically. Some countries, such as Israel will recognize a single Pfizer dose and recovery as immune, if you have a negative PCR test.
- trentnix 5y ago
  > It’s pretty simple. They are more likely to get sick and more likely to infect those whose care they are entrusted with. In a vacuum, that makes sense. But in the midst of genuine shortage of healthcare professionals, it's myopic foolishness. And I'd guess your comment about the lasting effect of actual recovery is going to turn out to be very wrong and already contradicts most everything I've seen recently regarding the immune response to reinfection after Covid recovery. edit: Here are a few links that contradict your statement that immunity doesn't last very long: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting... https://www.futurity.org/covid-19-survivors-immunity-viruses-2602672/ https://www.futurity.org/covid-19-survivors-immunity-viruses...
  - tandymodel100 5y ago
    In all honesty I don't want people uneducated or conspiracy-minded enough to not take the vaccine treating me anyway even in a shortage situation.
    - trentnix 5y ago
      Let them eat cake!
    - claytongulick 5y ago
      You don't want people who have medical degrees and are experts in their field treating you? Because you have a better understanding of this than they do? That seems like a strange position to take. I would take a different position, like "what do these highly qualified health care workers understand that I don't?"
      - belltaco 5y ago
        What percentage of doctors are unvaccinated? Or is there atleast a number or some reporting on doctors getting fired for refusing vaccinations? >I would take a different position, like "what do these highly qualified health care workers understand that I don't?" Examples?
        mikeyouse 5y ago
        It’s literally the dumbest line of logic and my barely literate neighbor justifies his antivax status with the same theory. “What do the doctors who have declined the vaccine know that I don’t” Even though over 99% of practicing doctors and something like 99.9% of hospitalists are vaccinated, they hold up that 1/1,000 as some sort of “truthsayer”. If 999 experts in a field told you they trusted something and 1/1,000 said they didn’t —- you’d have to be an absolute fool to blindly follow the 1 and I'm a bit surprised how common this argument is on HN.
        claytongulick 5y ago
- nradov 5y ago
  I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated but that doesn't produce lasting immunity against infection either. Immunity is a spectrum, not a binary condition. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
- midasuni 5y ago
  Confine them to covid wards
gspr 5y ago
Those doctors and nurses are little more than saboteurs. Would you hire someone who would willingly increases their own risk of being unable to work by orders of magnitude for no actual gain? Note that this is not like not hiring someone who likes to go mountain biking and therefore are more likely to hurt themselves and not work. Hobbies like that have real benefits. Vaccine denial not.

Spooky23 5y ago

It’s pretty simple. They are more likely to get sick and more likely to infect those whose care they are entrusted with. There’s a long history of this type of sanction. If you are a provider or nurse in a hospital who fails to get a measles, hepatitis, or rabies (after exposure) shot, you’ll be terminated for cause in many places. The reason why recovery doesn’t “count” the same as vaccination is that immunity doesn’t last very long - 60-90 days typically. Some countries, such as Israel will recognize a single Pfizer dose and recovery as immune, if you have a negative PCR test.

trentnix 5y ago
> It’s pretty simple. They are more likely to get sick and more likely to infect those whose care they are entrusted with. In a vacuum, that makes sense. But in the midst of genuine shortage of healthcare professionals, it's myopic foolishness. And I'd guess your comment about the lasting effect of actual recovery is going to turn out to be very wrong and already contradicts most everything I've seen recently regarding the immune response to reinfection after Covid recovery. edit: Here are a few links that contradict your statement that immunity doesn't last very long: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19 https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting... https://www.futurity.org/covid-19-survivors-immunity-viruses-2602672/ https://www.futurity.org/covid-19-survivors-immunity-viruses...
- tandymodel100 5y ago
  In all honesty I don't want people uneducated or conspiracy-minded enough to not take the vaccine treating me anyway even in a shortage situation.
  - trentnix 5y ago
    Let them eat cake!
  - claytongulick 5y ago
    You don't want people who have medical degrees and are experts in their field treating you? Because you have a better understanding of this than they do? That seems like a strange position to take. I would take a different position, like "what do these highly qualified health care workers understand that I don't?"
    - belltaco 5y ago
      What percentage of doctors are unvaccinated? Or is there atleast a number or some reporting on doctors getting fired for refusing vaccinations? >I would take a different position, like "what do these highly qualified health care workers understand that I don't?" Examples?
      - mikeyouse 5y ago
        It’s literally the dumbest line of logic and my barely literate neighbor justifies his antivax status with the same theory. “What do the doctors who have declined the vaccine know that I don’t” Even though over 99% of practicing doctors and something like 99.9% of hospitalists are vaccinated, they hold up that 1/1,000 as some sort of “truthsayer”. If 999 experts in a field told you they trusted something and 1/1,000 said they didn’t —- you’d have to be an absolute fool to blindly follow the 1 and I'm a bit surprised how common this argument is on HN.
        claytongulick 5y ago
nradov 5y ago
I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated but that doesn't produce lasting immunity against infection either. Immunity is a spectrum, not a binary condition. https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immunity-not-possible-astrazeneca-developer-2021-8 https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...
midasuni 5y ago
Confine them to covid wards

gspr 5y ago

Those doctors and nurses are little more than saboteurs. Would you hire someone who would willingly increases their own risk of being unable to work by orders of magnitude for no actual gain? Note that this is not like not hiring someone who likes to go mountain biking and therefore are more likely to hurt themselves and not work. Hobbies like that have real benefits. Vaccine denial not.