4 ms·

After a few brushes with medicine and seeing loved ones go through worse, I've had a lot of anxiety that something "medical" will happen again. Part of me wond

After a few brushes with medicine and seeing loved ones go through worse, I've had a lot of anxiety that something "medical" will happen again. Part of me wonders if the real reason the US has such low vaccination rates is because of the amount of medical trauma that everyone has experienced.

watwut 5y ago
Are the people in US more likely to go through major injuries or operations? If not, then no. Plus if anything, vaccinated people are less likely to have you on vents or on hospital.
klyrs 5y ago
I'm not sure about the US, but in Canada, indigenous populations are vocally anti-vaccine specifically because of intergenerational trauma. The government and medical systems have treated them as subhuman for hundreds of years, recently enough that survivors of unethical research performed on residential schools are still alive today. There are certainly parallels with the treatment of black and indigenous people in the US, and I wouldn't be surprised if earned distrust is a driving force for a lot of people.
- pfortuny 5y ago
  It is a bit overkill but the Unabomber was the subject of a “medical” experiment too… Talk about unintended consequences…
  - sangnoir 5y ago
    I wouldn't call MKUltra a medical experiment.
    - lostlogin 5y ago
      I think I’m missing your reference? The wiki for the Unabomber has him traumatised as a child after treatment for hives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski
      - sgt 5y ago
        It's alleged in the TV series.
        rkuykendall-com 5y ago
        It was alleged far earlier than that. I haven't seen the TV show but remember reading about it. Wikipedia cites this 2012 article as one source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/impromptu-man/201205/harvards-experiment-the-unabomber-class-62 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/impromptu-man/201205...
- anon9001 5y ago
  We have a lot of those same issues in the US and it is a well known driving force of "vaccine hesitancy". The problem is usually framed as "earned distrust of institutions", which is certainly a big part of the story. But "unhealed trauma from medical horrors" probably requires a different remedy than rebuilding trust in institutions, and it should at least be part of the story. If I'm ever incapacitated, I know the doctors can't say "let's not save this one. we could keep them alive, but it's better for everyone to not do that". That is insane to me, and it makes me deeply distrustful of the whole institution. To give non-Americans a sense of how things work here: if a doctor suggests that you have surgery and it's not an immediate need, you should seek the opinion of several other professionals to see if you really need the surgery or if the doctor just likes doing that one. Also quackery like homeopathy and chiropractory is allowed in the open. Smart Americans learn early which parts of the medical system can be trusted and how to get maximum benefit out of them. But I can see how someone might not want to go through all that effort, tune the whole thing out, and tune out vaccinations along with it. I see this as a trauma response to knowing how abusive the system can be unless it's handled very delicately.
  - pc86 5y ago
    > I know the doctors can't say "let's not save this one. we could keep them alive, but it's better for everyone to not do that". They absolutely can, if they know that that's what you would want and someone from your family isn't actively trying to stop them. That's why it's important for people to have DNRs and/or make their wishes known to multiple family members.
  - rtsil 5y ago
    > if a doctor suggests that you have surgery and it's not an immediate need, you should seek the opinion of several other professionals to see if you really need the surgery or if the doctor just likes doing that one. In France too, that is absolutely what I recommend. Never undergo a non-emergency potentially life-altering medical procedure without getting the opinion of at least another specialist. And also that if you go see a surgeon, their recommendation would almost always be a surgery, even if there are others, less invasive path of treatments.
guiambros 5y ago
Not sure why you were downvoted. Mistrust with medicine is widely documented as a key factor in the slow vaccine rollout for some groups in the US, particularly Black Americans [1][2]. There's a century-long history of bias, mistreatment, and systemic racism which led to mistrust in medicine [3][4]; vaccines are just the tip of the iceberg. Thankfully the situation is slowly improving thanks to targeted work in specific communities [5], but still some work to do. EDIT: sure, not directly related to parent's horrific experience, but similar theme: we've made great strides in the last few decades to treat the body, but still struggling to overcome the traumatic experiences some groups had in the recent past. [1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/newsletter-article/2021/jan/medical-mistrust-among-black-americans https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/newsletter-art... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/14/us/vaccine-race-gap.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/14/us/vaccine-ra... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/ [4] https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a35483492/racial-bias-pain-assessment-management/ https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a35483492/racial-bias... [5] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/us/black-americans-vaccine-tuskegee.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/us/black-americans-vaccin...
- mhb 5y ago
  Your ambiguous phrasing suggests that your references provide "wide documentation" that "mistrust with medicine" is "a key factor" in black people not being vaccinated. Your references 2 and 3 say nothing of the sort. All they document is that blacks and latinos have lower vaccination rates - not the cause. After my random sampling of two of your citations, I assume that the others are similarly unsupportive.
treeman79 5y ago
I have had several horrible reactions to medications. Think the super rare 1/10 of a percent reaction. Most of my family is the same way. I’m terrified of any new medication. I do support vaccine in general, but it terrifies me. I had covid before it was available. So now it’s “why bother”

watwut 5y ago

Are the people in US more likely to go through major injuries or operations? If not, then no. Plus if anything, vaccinated people are less likely to have you on vents or on hospital.

klyrs 5y ago

I'm not sure about the US, but in Canada, indigenous populations are vocally anti-vaccine specifically because of intergenerational trauma. The government and medical systems have treated them as subhuman for hundreds of years, recently enough that survivors of unethical research performed on residential schools are still alive today. There are certainly parallels with the treatment of black and indigenous people in the US, and I wouldn't be surprised if earned distrust is a driving force for a lot of people.

pfortuny 5y ago
It is a bit overkill but the Unabomber was the subject of a “medical” experiment too… Talk about unintended consequences…
- sangnoir 5y ago
  I wouldn't call MKUltra a medical experiment.
  - lostlogin 5y ago
    I think I’m missing your reference? The wiki for the Unabomber has him traumatised as a child after treatment for hives. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kaczynski
    - sgt 5y ago
      It's alleged in the TV series.
      - rkuykendall-com 5y ago
        It was alleged far earlier than that. I haven't seen the TV show but remember reading about it. Wikipedia cites this 2012 article as one source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/impromptu-man/201205/harvards-experiment-the-unabomber-class-62 https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/impromptu-man/201205...
anon9001 5y ago
We have a lot of those same issues in the US and it is a well known driving force of "vaccine hesitancy". The problem is usually framed as "earned distrust of institutions", which is certainly a big part of the story. But "unhealed trauma from medical horrors" probably requires a different remedy than rebuilding trust in institutions, and it should at least be part of the story. If I'm ever incapacitated, I know the doctors can't say "let's not save this one. we could keep them alive, but it's better for everyone to not do that". That is insane to me, and it makes me deeply distrustful of the whole institution. To give non-Americans a sense of how things work here: if a doctor suggests that you have surgery and it's not an immediate need, you should seek the opinion of several other professionals to see if you really need the surgery or if the doctor just likes doing that one. Also quackery like homeopathy and chiropractory is allowed in the open. Smart Americans learn early which parts of the medical system can be trusted and how to get maximum benefit out of them. But I can see how someone might not want to go through all that effort, tune the whole thing out, and tune out vaccinations along with it. I see this as a trauma response to knowing how abusive the system can be unless it's handled very delicately.
- pc86 5y ago
  > I know the doctors can't say "let's not save this one. we could keep them alive, but it's better for everyone to not do that". They absolutely can, if they know that that's what you would want and someone from your family isn't actively trying to stop them. That's why it's important for people to have DNRs and/or make their wishes known to multiple family members.
- rtsil 5y ago
  > if a doctor suggests that you have surgery and it's not an immediate need, you should seek the opinion of several other professionals to see if you really need the surgery or if the doctor just likes doing that one. In France too, that is absolutely what I recommend. Never undergo a non-emergency potentially life-altering medical procedure without getting the opinion of at least another specialist. And also that if you go see a surgeon, their recommendation would almost always be a surgery, even if there are others, less invasive path of treatments.

guiambros 5y ago

Not sure why you were downvoted. Mistrust with medicine is widely documented as a key factor in the slow vaccine rollout for some groups in the US, particularly Black Americans [1][2]. There's a century-long history of bias, mistreatment, and systemic racism which led to mistrust in medicine [3][4]; vaccines are just the tip of the iceberg. Thankfully the situation is slowly improving thanks to targeted work in specific communities [5], but still some work to do. EDIT: sure, not directly related to parent's horrific experience, but similar theme: we've made great strides in the last few decades to treat the body, but still struggling to overcome the traumatic experiences some groups had in the recent past. [1] https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/newsletter-article/2021/jan/medical-mistrust-among-black-americans https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/newsletter-art... [2] https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/14/us/vaccine-race-gap.html https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/05/14/us/vaccine-ra... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4843483/ [4] https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a35483492/racial-bias-pain-assessment-management/ https://www.womenshealthmag.com/health/a35483492/racial-bias... [5] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/us/black-americans-vaccine-tuskegee.html https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/13/us/black-americans-vaccin...

mhb 5y ago
Your ambiguous phrasing suggests that your references provide "wide documentation" that "mistrust with medicine" is "a key factor" in black people not being vaccinated. Your references 2 and 3 say nothing of the sort. All they document is that blacks and latinos have lower vaccination rates - not the cause. After my random sampling of two of your citations, I assume that the others are similarly unsupportive.

treeman79 5y ago

I have had several horrible reactions to medications. Think the super rare 1/10 of a percent reaction. Most of my family is the same way. I’m terrified of any new medication. I do support vaccine in general, but it terrifies me. I had covid before it was available. So now it’s “why bother”