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Honest question: can that happen without users having to purchase ETH (or whatever the underlying token is)? My very limited understanding is that web3 is inher

by doom2 5y ago

Honest question: can that happen without users having to purchase ETH (or whatever the underlying token is)? My very limited understanding is that web3 is inherently tied to cryptocurrency and the miners have to be paid somehow.

ramijames 5y ago
The open network that we built has free accounts, free transactions, no resource staking requirements, etc. Gas on Ethereum is absolutely a problem and absolutely does not scale. We do not have mining (proof of stake), and have been certified carbon neutral (https://medium.com/ultra-io/ultras-blockchain-is-carbonneutral-certified-edbc41251f87 https://medium.com/ultra-io/ultras-blockchain-is-carbonneutr...)
- brokensegue 5y ago
  > With this in mind, we chose to assign seven designated Block Producers for Ultra’s blockchain. This does not sound truly distributed. Like you might as well not use Blockchain if it's not distributed.
  - BlueTemplar 5y ago
    Git uses a kind of blockchain and is often centralized rather than distributed.
    - brokensegue 5y ago
      Pedantic but fine. I'll revise to "why use a trustless distributed ledger if you are going to only allow 7 validators. Might as well just use MySQL with an API.".
  - ramijames 5y ago
    Decentralization is really a spectrum. We have a set of block producers that we've vetted and have worked closely with to set up the infrastructure for our network. They are external companies (Ubisoft is one of them). The code that runs on the network gets vetted by them and only goes into production after they sign a multisig and allow it. It's not thousands of anonymous nodes, but it is also not a single entity that controls everything. We intend to build out a more decentralized pattern with more complex governance as things mature. It's a software project and as you all well know, you can't launch your ideal at the start. You launch what you can and you improve as you go. Decentralization is that way, too.
Sevii 5y ago
Thats the fun part, you don't have to purchase any cryptocurrency. All you need is a crypto wallet and you have a public/private key pair. Crypto only empowers this by encouraging people to maintain their keys with a serious financial incentive.
- nradov 5y ago
  That doesn't solve anything. People will still lose their keys. What is the key recovery strategy?
  - waprin 5y ago
    Check out Vitaliks post on the topic : https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html
- intrasight 5y ago
  This is a cool insight.
wmf 5y ago
In newer systems, users don't have to buy any tokens because VCs pay the transaction fees and they pay you to use the system.
- uh_uh 5y ago
  But this can't last forever no?
  - wmf 5y ago
    Of course.

by doom2 5y ago

ramijames 5y ago

The open network that we built has free accounts, free transactions, no resource staking requirements, etc. Gas on Ethereum is absolutely a problem and absolutely does not scale. We do not have mining (proof of stake), and have been certified carbon neutral (https://medium.com/ultra-io/ultras-blockchain-is-carbonneutral-certified-edbc41251f87 https://medium.com/ultra-io/ultras-blockchain-is-carbonneutr...)

brokensegue 5y ago
> With this in mind, we chose to assign seven designated Block Producers for Ultra’s blockchain. This does not sound truly distributed. Like you might as well not use Blockchain if it's not distributed.
- BlueTemplar 5y ago
  Git uses a kind of blockchain and is often centralized rather than distributed.
  - brokensegue 5y ago
    Pedantic but fine. I'll revise to "why use a trustless distributed ledger if you are going to only allow 7 validators. Might as well just use MySQL with an API.".
- ramijames 5y ago
  Decentralization is really a spectrum. We have a set of block producers that we've vetted and have worked closely with to set up the infrastructure for our network. They are external companies (Ubisoft is one of them). The code that runs on the network gets vetted by them and only goes into production after they sign a multisig and allow it. It's not thousands of anonymous nodes, but it is also not a single entity that controls everything. We intend to build out a more decentralized pattern with more complex governance as things mature. It's a software project and as you all well know, you can't launch your ideal at the start. You launch what you can and you improve as you go. Decentralization is that way, too.

Sevii 5y ago

Thats the fun part, you don't have to purchase any cryptocurrency. All you need is a crypto wallet and you have a public/private key pair. Crypto only empowers this by encouraging people to maintain their keys with a serious financial incentive.

nradov 5y ago
That doesn't solve anything. People will still lose their keys. What is the key recovery strategy?
- waprin 5y ago
  Check out Vitaliks post on the topic : https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/01/11/recovery.html
intrasight 5y ago
This is a cool insight.

wmf 5y ago

In newer systems, users don't have to buy any tokens because VCs pay the transaction fees and they pay you to use the system.

uh_uh 5y ago
But this can't last forever no?
- wmf 5y ago
  Of course.