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It’s so strange to read these questions as if kids were living in isolation from adults. Kids are in closer contact with each other and their parents than adul

It’s so strange to read these questions as if kids were living in isolation from adults. Kids are in closer contact with each other and their parents than adults are with each other. It’s not even a close comparison. They may not get severe infections as often as adults, but ask any parent and they’ll let you know just how effective kids are at spreading infections. It also feels deliberately disingenuous to bring up possible vaccine side effects without explaining that those same side effects occur with higher frequency and severity from the infection itself. It’s increasingly looking like exposure to Coronavirus is inevitable, so choosing the lower risk option of being vaccinated is obviously better than risking the worse side effects of the infection itself. Too many people are trying to treat this as a comparison between vaccinated or never being exposed to the virus ever, which is an increasingly unlikely possibility.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jtdev 5y ago
sweezyjeezy 5y ago
Yeah if a kid infects a parent, and that parent dies, that is an incredibly bad outcome for the kid.
- anthonypasq 5y ago
  presumably the parents would be vaccinated???
encoderer 5y ago
The science is murky on whether being vaccinated prevents being infectious. Others have pointed it out and are being flagged. I took JNJ and boosted with Moderna I want people to choose to get vaxxed but as far as I can tell nobody is out there saying getting vaxxed will prevent you from spreading the disease.
- tragictrash 5y ago
  The science is not murky at all. If you are vaccinated you can be infected. Have you been watching the news? We are on full lockdown again in my household, because vaccination isn't a guarantee to stop transmission.
  - encoderer 5y ago
    That’s not the right question. The right question is: does a vaxxed person have a lower viral load that makes them likely to infect fewer people? If the answer was yes, then vaxxing young kids makes more sense.
    - aycqt 5y ago
    - tragictrash 5y ago
      I disagree. IMO At this point the only tool that can effectively stop transmission is masking, testing,and isolation. In the good old USA we have none of those. I understand that we originally believed the vaccine stopped transmission. It is time to let that go. The vaccine is a tool to reduce the risk of hospitalization and mortality. Whether or not Kids are Less infectious is not a good criteria to evaluate the worthiness of giving kids the vaccine. It protects them and the people around them. Please don't conflate the lack of proper disease controls with evaluating vaccine effectiveness. We need better testing contact tracing and community outreach. We have really miss managed this.
      - nradov 5y ago
        The virus will be around forever. You obviously can't expect people to continue with masking and testing indefinitely.
        tragictrash 5y ago
        Thank you are in for a big wake-up call
jtc331 5y ago
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago
  > Except in children the side effects are actually a higher rate from the vaccine than from infection itself. This is false. There was a pre-print study a while ago that tried to compare estimates vaccine side effects to COVID hospitalizations and hoped that readers wouldn’t notice they were comparing apples to oranges. The preprint was retracted but many people missed the details and ended up convinced that the vaccine is worse than infection because they didn’t read closely enough. The vaccine never would have been approved and stay available if it was worse than the infection it prevents. The only way someone could believe something that absurd is to believe that the whole thing is a massive conspiracy theory. It’s not.
  - aycqt 5y ago
  - bena 5y ago
    The thing that boggles my mind is how many people are treating "children" as if they are anything but smaller, developing humans. What works for adults will work for children. What can happen to children can happen to adults. The major difference is that children are smaller and are developing. So we need to be wary of things that could hinder that development. That's really it. They aren't some completely separate species. It's not like Covid checks birthdays.
    - gls2ro 5y ago
      What works for adults does not work for children. For example we use different dosages per kg in adults and children. Please note dosage per kg and not total dosage. Also the immune system works differently. So please do not spread this information. It is false in many ways. Children body (especially young ones) works differently than adult body.
aycqt 5y ago
Norwegian health authorities recommend BioNTech instead of Moderna for children and adolescents: https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2021/myocarditis-in-boys-and-young-men-can-occur-more-often-after-the-spikevax-v/ https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2021/myocarditis-in-boys-and-youn... The vaccinated spread Omicron at high rates: https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.50.2101147 https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.E...
Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago
To give you credits, we have two kids and one goes to preschool. We have been sick-ish every other 2 weeks, starting from September. Mild throat ache, mild runny nose, mild cough, pick one! And we are really hard on "wash your hands" (my 3 years old washes her hands better than most adults), it's just that she gets infected, so we do too. It's way milder on us, sometimes we don't get it, but she brings everything at home.
tablespoon 5y ago
> It also feels deliberately disingenuous to bring up possible vaccine side effects without explaining that those same side effects occur with higher frequency and severity from the infection itself. Welcome to the COVID-19/anti-vax "debate." Sometimes it seems like it's more of a testing ground for developing the most effective misleading arguments to discourage people from taking sensible public health measures and create politically-exploitable controversy.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

jtdev 5y ago

sweezyjeezy 5y ago

Yeah if a kid infects a parent, and that parent dies, that is an incredibly bad outcome for the kid.

anthonypasq 5y ago
presumably the parents would be vaccinated???

encoderer 5y ago

The science is murky on whether being vaccinated prevents being infectious. Others have pointed it out and are being flagged. I took JNJ and boosted with Moderna I want people to choose to get vaxxed but as far as I can tell nobody is out there saying getting vaxxed will prevent you from spreading the disease.

tragictrash 5y ago
The science is not murky at all. If you are vaccinated you can be infected. Have you been watching the news? We are on full lockdown again in my household, because vaccination isn't a guarantee to stop transmission.
- encoderer 5y ago
  That’s not the right question. The right question is: does a vaxxed person have a lower viral load that makes them likely to infect fewer people? If the answer was yes, then vaxxing young kids makes more sense.
  - aycqt 5y ago
  - tragictrash 5y ago
    I disagree. IMO At this point the only tool that can effectively stop transmission is masking, testing,and isolation. In the good old USA we have none of those. I understand that we originally believed the vaccine stopped transmission. It is time to let that go. The vaccine is a tool to reduce the risk of hospitalization and mortality. Whether or not Kids are Less infectious is not a good criteria to evaluate the worthiness of giving kids the vaccine. It protects them and the people around them. Please don't conflate the lack of proper disease controls with evaluating vaccine effectiveness. We need better testing contact tracing and community outreach. We have really miss managed this.
    - nradov 5y ago
      The virus will be around forever. You obviously can't expect people to continue with masking and testing indefinitely.
      - tragictrash 5y ago
        Thank you are in for a big wake-up call

jtc331 5y ago

PragmaticPulp 5y ago
> Except in children the side effects are actually a higher rate from the vaccine than from infection itself. This is false. There was a pre-print study a while ago that tried to compare estimates vaccine side effects to COVID hospitalizations and hoped that readers wouldn’t notice they were comparing apples to oranges. The preprint was retracted but many people missed the details and ended up convinced that the vaccine is worse than infection because they didn’t read closely enough. The vaccine never would have been approved and stay available if it was worse than the infection it prevents. The only way someone could believe something that absurd is to believe that the whole thing is a massive conspiracy theory. It’s not.
- aycqt 5y ago
- bena 5y ago
  The thing that boggles my mind is how many people are treating "children" as if they are anything but smaller, developing humans. What works for adults will work for children. What can happen to children can happen to adults. The major difference is that children are smaller and are developing. So we need to be wary of things that could hinder that development. That's really it. They aren't some completely separate species. It's not like Covid checks birthdays.
  - gls2ro 5y ago
    What works for adults does not work for children. For example we use different dosages per kg in adults and children. Please note dosage per kg and not total dosage. Also the immune system works differently. So please do not spread this information. It is false in many ways. Children body (especially young ones) works differently than adult body.

aycqt 5y ago

Norwegian health authorities recommend BioNTech instead of Moderna for children and adolescents: https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2021/myocarditis-in-boys-and-young-men-can-occur-more-often-after-the-spikevax-v/ https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2021/myocarditis-in-boys-and-youn... The vaccinated spread Omicron at high rates: https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2021.26.50.2101147 https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.E...

Fire-Dragon-DoL 5y ago

To give you credits, we have two kids and one goes to preschool. We have been sick-ish every other 2 weeks, starting from September. Mild throat ache, mild runny nose, mild cough, pick one! And we are really hard on "wash your hands" (my 3 years old washes her hands better than most adults), it's just that she gets infected, so we do too. It's way milder on us, sometimes we don't get it, but she brings everything at home.

tablespoon 5y ago

> It also feels deliberately disingenuous to bring up possible vaccine side effects without explaining that those same side effects occur with higher frequency and severity from the infection itself. Welcome to the COVID-19/anti-vax "debate." Sometimes it seems like it's more of a testing ground for developing the most effective misleading arguments to discourage people from taking sensible public health measures and create politically-exploitable controversy.