4 ms·

The environment argument is technically incorrect, and typically used by ignorant people as it is a good emotional argument. There could be 1 or 10000000 NFTs,

The environment argument is technically incorrect, and typically used by ignorant people as it is a good emotional argument. There could be 1 or 10000000 NFTs, it makes no difference to the energy usage of the Ethereum network. The energy usage is in the production of Proof of Work blocks. These blocks could be empty or full, and this makes no difference to the amount of energy used to produce them. NFTs are dumb, a grift, etc etc.. but they themselves use no energy beyond that required to create, sign and broadcast the transaction. It is dishonest to say "NFTs use a lot of energy". They dont. You can blame ethereum, you can blame PoW, you can blame the miners -- but the existence of the NFT contract and transactions makes no difference.

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago
They increase the usage and attractiveness of the Ethereum network. So while they don't directly cost energy, the Ethereum network expands to use all available energy priced less than the current token price (as all Proof of Work schemes do). Anything that increases the token price of Ethereum indirectly increases the energy use of the Ethereum network.
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
  That is a second order effect at best. The loose fiat monetary policy of States also drives the price of cryptocurrencies -- far more so. Is this also to blame for the energy usage of Proof of Work? I would say it has a bigger effect on fixed emission cryptocurrencies than stupid tokens. Cut the money printing, save the environment?
  - specialp 5y ago
    The price of cryptocurrencies seems to have almost no relationship to stability and inflation of fiat currency. One would expect when bad inflation reports come out, and the stock market declines, cryptocurrencies would benefit from being an inflation hedge. But they don't. They often decline as well. It appears the rise and fall of cryptocurrencies correlate with the overall market's appetite for risk and speculation.
    - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
      I very much disagree. I think the relationship is fairly obvious: https://usdsat.com/ https://usdsat.com/ You may not be familiar with the history: "The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust" -- SN (2009) Literally why Bitcoin was invented. You can choose whatever you want to believe regarding reported inflation numbers. I tend to believe the metrics that show very high asset inflation in since 2009. And fact anything desirable seems to get cheaper in Bitcoin terms over time. Why do you think cryptocurrencies are popular places with very high (reported) inflation, like Nigeria and Turkey?
boardwaalk 5y ago
Interest in NFTs still drives interest in Ethereum so there’s a social aspect working indirectly.
rootlocus 5y ago
That's like arguing it's not the voltage that kills, it's the current. Technically true, but practically useless.
- rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
  That is not a good analogy -- Current and Voltage are related by ohms law. The energy costs are not related to the number of tokens, how often the tokens are traded, who made the tokens or who sold them.
danShumway 5y ago
> NFTs are dumb, a grift, etc etc.. but they themselves use no energy beyond that required to create, sign and broadcast the transaction. NFTs as a system don't work without a blockchain though, no one would be interested in an NFT space that didn't have minting or trading. I think people are using "NFT" as a shorthand to talk about those transactions you bring up. It's kind of like saying, "gaming doesn't use a lot of energy, doing math on GPU does." I mean, technically right, but gaming is the reason people are doing math on the GPU. NFTs/cryptocurrency are the reason people are doing transactions on a proof-of-work Ethereum chain.

SAI_Peregrinus 5y ago

They increase the usage and attractiveness of the Ethereum network. So while they don't directly cost energy, the Ethereum network expands to use all available energy priced less than the current token price (as all Proof of Work schemes do). Anything that increases the token price of Ethereum indirectly increases the energy use of the Ethereum network.

rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
That is a second order effect at best. The loose fiat monetary policy of States also drives the price of cryptocurrencies -- far more so. Is this also to blame for the energy usage of Proof of Work? I would say it has a bigger effect on fixed emission cryptocurrencies than stupid tokens. Cut the money printing, save the environment?
- specialp 5y ago
  The price of cryptocurrencies seems to have almost no relationship to stability and inflation of fiat currency. One would expect when bad inflation reports come out, and the stock market declines, cryptocurrencies would benefit from being an inflation hedge. But they don't. They often decline as well. It appears the rise and fall of cryptocurrencies correlate with the overall market's appetite for risk and speculation.
  - rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
    I very much disagree. I think the relationship is fairly obvious: https://usdsat.com/ https://usdsat.com/ You may not be familiar with the history: "The central bank must be trusted not to debase the currency, but the history of fiat currencies is full of breaches of that trust" -- SN (2009) Literally why Bitcoin was invented. You can choose whatever you want to believe regarding reported inflation numbers. I tend to believe the metrics that show very high asset inflation in since 2009. And fact anything desirable seems to get cheaper in Bitcoin terms over time. Why do you think cryptocurrencies are popular places with very high (reported) inflation, like Nigeria and Turkey?

boardwaalk 5y ago

Interest in NFTs still drives interest in Ethereum so there’s a social aspect working indirectly.

rootlocus 5y ago

That's like arguing it's not the voltage that kills, it's the current. Technically true, but practically useless.

rfd4sgmk8u 5y ago
That is not a good analogy -- Current and Voltage are related by ohms law. The energy costs are not related to the number of tokens, how often the tokens are traded, who made the tokens or who sold them.

danShumway 5y ago

> NFTs are dumb, a grift, etc etc.. but they themselves use no energy beyond that required to create, sign and broadcast the transaction. NFTs as a system don't work without a blockchain though, no one would be interested in an NFT space that didn't have minting or trading. I think people are using "NFT" as a shorthand to talk about those transactions you bring up. It's kind of like saying, "gaming doesn't use a lot of energy, doing math on GPU does." I mean, technically right, but gaming is the reason people are doing math on the GPU. NFTs/cryptocurrency are the reason people are doing transactions on a proof-of-work Ethereum chain.