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The Bible is utterly true, God is both amazingly compassionate and severe, mankind is ravaged by sin, and Jesus really did come to earth to redeem his people fr

The Bible is utterly true, God is both amazingly compassionate and severe, mankind is ravaged by sin, and Jesus really did come to earth to redeem his people from sin. Those who repent and believe will be saved. Those who do not believe are condemned already (John 3). Many find these statements outrageous and offensive. I didn't come up with them, just believe them.

Renegade98 5y ago
I don't find them either outrageous or offensive. They're just not true, that's all.
- rsyring 5y ago
  In that case, "If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied" (1 Cor 15).
  - gibbonsrcool 5y ago
    "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11
    - no-dr-onboard 5y ago
      Struggling to find the relevance in this one.
      - Eldt 5y ago
        Relevant in that you don't take stupid advice to heart
        no-dr-onboard 5y ago
        What about it is stupid? Paul’s teaching here is that he’s not permitting women to be teachers in the church. That in God’s decreed order everyone has a role. Male and female have roles to fill and duties unique to their sex. This isn’t misandry or misogyny. Men and women complement each other. Male nor female, there is no difference in dignity and worth.
  - iab 5y ago
    > We are not saying that Evolution can't exist, only that it is guided by His Noodly Appendage. - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (attributed)
  - belltaco 5y ago
    "They will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:18 ESV
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- claytongulick 5y ago
  It sort of depends on your definition of truth doesn't it? Most people accept that 2 + 2 = 4 is true. But this is only accurate within the math realm, which is a purely abstract concept. There's no such thing as "2" in the physical world. I view most religions in a similar way, they are a form of truth, that exist within their abstract realm. I read a fantasy novel once that had a character that believed in religion. All of them. At the same time. Sincerely. I always admired him.
  - jsjsbdkj 5y ago
    There's "two" in the sense of "I have two loaves of bread, you give me two loaves of bread, now I have four". Abstract math arose as a way to describe physical things. That's a pretty concrete definition of truth.
  - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
    > There's no such thing as "2" in the physical world …wat. ಠ_ಠ At this point, society has quite a lot of science and engineering relying on the fact that numbers have objective meaning in the physical world.
    - jiggawatts 5y ago
      You can’t physically represent or measure PI to more than about 20 decimal places no matter how you arrange matter. The curvature of spacetime itself will ruin any such attempt, not to mention eventually running into the limits of the observable universe itself. Similarly, according to QM, the number of fundamental particles in any system is not well-defined. They’re constantly appearing and disappearing. How do you count “people”? Easily and consistently? What about conjoined twins? Still doable? What if the twins are highly asymmetric with one twin just a bump on the head of the other? Just a few cells? Shared brain but seperate bodies? Still easy to “count”?
      - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
        One functioning engine will get this aeroplane off the ground. Zero functioning engines will not. Yeah, pretty easy to count.
mint2 5y ago
Out of curiosity, what is your rationalization of the epic of Gilgamesh having a nearly identical flood story about 500-600 years prior to the Old Testament and no Christian gods present? I’m genuinely interested in how a Christian thinks about that and the other various pre-Christian stuff that was incorporated into the Bible.
- rsyring 5y ago
  It's all about whose textual criticism you believe. You can find people who argue one way. The Old Testament professors I studied under would argue a different way. Just one example: https://genesisapologetics.com/faqs/gilgamesh-epic-which-came-first-noahs-flood-or-the-gilgamesh-epic/ https://genesisapologetics.com/faqs/gilgamesh-epic-which-cam... There are other things in the Bible that challenge me more than textual criticism. On the flip side, I'd say the core "rationalization" I have for my belief is what the Bible teaches about sin. It's obvious to me something is very wrong with with the world we live in. I think the Bible explains convincingly both what's wrong and what the fix is.
  - mint2 5y ago
    Wow thanks for the link, that does clearly show how Bible literalists(?) think about topics like that.
baby 5y ago
Harry potter is true. Voldemort is doomed to come back and there are secret schools were people go to learn how to do magic.
- rsyring 5y ago
  I wish. :) Except the Voldemort part. Harry Potter is fantastic.
rjbwork 5y ago
How can the bible be utterly true? It outright contradicts itself multiple times. It's a bunch of little books written by a hundred different people over the span of centuries. Do you instead mean that you believe that the broad themes are true, but that there are lots of details written by authors that are flawed? To believe that it is "utterly" true indicates to me a capacity for doublethink bordering on total insanity.
- iab 5y ago
  Religion specifically asks you suspend disbelief, so this is consistent
  - senectus1 5y ago
    yes, the Faith problem.
- rsyring 5y ago
  You are, of course, accusing me of being totally insane after a reasonable investigation of the Bible including significant familiarity with the texts themselves as well as the theological and exegetical arguments for non-contradiction? If not, maybe try it. :) IMO there are reasonable and even compelling arguments about why the Bible is both inerrant and trustworthy. I spent five years in seminary and believe, after significant investigation, that the Bible is utterly true.
  - rjbwork 5y ago
    I have read it. It's why I don't believe it is utterly true and consider the claim that it is utterly true indicative of what I said it is. It's 2021. Any of us can go and look up a list of the contradictions people have found throughout the ages, then go and look up those verses on BibleHub and see that the text, in any of a dozen translations, are directly contradictory. Context does not help in the vast majority of these cases, as they are definitive claims of fact that are directly opposed. Probably my favorite bit is when Genesis says that god decided people could not live longer than 120 years, then later goes on to name a ton of people who lived for hundreds of years. We also know today that there is at least one person who lived longer than 120 years, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment . And of course I won't even get into just how fantastically contradictory every gospel is with the others over quite a startling array of details of the story of the death and ascension of Jesus.
tluyben2 5y ago
I don't find it offensive, I do not think it can be true and currently, at least in the EU where I live and have lived, this is seen in this day and age as an American thing (the end of Don't look up for instance). And that people on HN believe that (logically inconsistent stories interpreted differently; your interpretion is already different from versions practiced where I grew up, where, by the way, the churches closed down mostly now) is beyond me, but each their own. If it makes you happy, who cares what others think.
deafsquid69 5y ago

Renegade98 5y ago

I don't find them either outrageous or offensive. They're just not true, that's all.

rsyring 5y ago
In that case, "If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied" (1 Cor 15).
- gibbonsrcool 5y ago
  "I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." Timothy 2:11
  - no-dr-onboard 5y ago
    Struggling to find the relevance in this one.
    - Eldt 5y ago
      Relevant in that you don't take stupid advice to heart
      - no-dr-onboard 5y ago
        What about it is stupid? Paul’s teaching here is that he’s not permitting women to be teachers in the church. That in God’s decreed order everyone has a role. Male and female have roles to fill and duties unique to their sex. This isn’t misandry or misogyny. Men and women complement each other. Male nor female, there is no difference in dignity and worth.
- iab 5y ago
  > We are not saying that Evolution can't exist, only that it is guided by His Noodly Appendage. - Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (attributed)
- belltaco 5y ago
  "They will pick up serpents with their hands; and if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them; they will lay their hands on the sick, and they will recover.” Mark 16:18 ESV
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
claytongulick 5y ago
It sort of depends on your definition of truth doesn't it? Most people accept that 2 + 2 = 4 is true. But this is only accurate within the math realm, which is a purely abstract concept. There's no such thing as "2" in the physical world. I view most religions in a similar way, they are a form of truth, that exist within their abstract realm. I read a fantasy novel once that had a character that believed in religion. All of them. At the same time. Sincerely. I always admired him.
- jsjsbdkj 5y ago
  There's "two" in the sense of "I have two loaves of bread, you give me two loaves of bread, now I have four". Abstract math arose as a way to describe physical things. That's a pretty concrete definition of truth.
- yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
  > There's no such thing as "2" in the physical world …wat. ಠ_ಠ At this point, society has quite a lot of science and engineering relying on the fact that numbers have objective meaning in the physical world.
  - jiggawatts 5y ago
    You can’t physically represent or measure PI to more than about 20 decimal places no matter how you arrange matter. The curvature of spacetime itself will ruin any such attempt, not to mention eventually running into the limits of the observable universe itself. Similarly, according to QM, the number of fundamental particles in any system is not well-defined. They’re constantly appearing and disappearing. How do you count “people”? Easily and consistently? What about conjoined twins? Still doable? What if the twins are highly asymmetric with one twin just a bump on the head of the other? Just a few cells? Shared brain but seperate bodies? Still easy to “count”?
    - yakshaving_jgt 5y ago
      One functioning engine will get this aeroplane off the ground. Zero functioning engines will not. Yeah, pretty easy to count.

mint2 5y ago

Out of curiosity, what is your rationalization of the epic of Gilgamesh having a nearly identical flood story about 500-600 years prior to the Old Testament and no Christian gods present? I’m genuinely interested in how a Christian thinks about that and the other various pre-Christian stuff that was incorporated into the Bible.

rsyring 5y ago
It's all about whose textual criticism you believe. You can find people who argue one way. The Old Testament professors I studied under would argue a different way. Just one example: https://genesisapologetics.com/faqs/gilgamesh-epic-which-came-first-noahs-flood-or-the-gilgamesh-epic/ https://genesisapologetics.com/faqs/gilgamesh-epic-which-cam... There are other things in the Bible that challenge me more than textual criticism. On the flip side, I'd say the core "rationalization" I have for my belief is what the Bible teaches about sin. It's obvious to me something is very wrong with with the world we live in. I think the Bible explains convincingly both what's wrong and what the fix is.
- mint2 5y ago
  Wow thanks for the link, that does clearly show how Bible literalists(?) think about topics like that.

baby 5y ago

Harry potter is true. Voldemort is doomed to come back and there are secret schools were people go to learn how to do magic.

rsyring 5y ago
I wish. :) Except the Voldemort part. Harry Potter is fantastic.

rjbwork 5y ago

How can the bible be utterly true? It outright contradicts itself multiple times. It's a bunch of little books written by a hundred different people over the span of centuries. Do you instead mean that you believe that the broad themes are true, but that there are lots of details written by authors that are flawed? To believe that it is "utterly" true indicates to me a capacity for doublethink bordering on total insanity.

iab 5y ago
Religion specifically asks you suspend disbelief, so this is consistent
- senectus1 5y ago
  yes, the Faith problem.
rsyring 5y ago
You are, of course, accusing me of being totally insane after a reasonable investigation of the Bible including significant familiarity with the texts themselves as well as the theological and exegetical arguments for non-contradiction? If not, maybe try it. :) IMO there are reasonable and even compelling arguments about why the Bible is both inerrant and trustworthy. I spent five years in seminary and believe, after significant investigation, that the Bible is utterly true.
- rjbwork 5y ago
  I have read it. It's why I don't believe it is utterly true and consider the claim that it is utterly true indicative of what I said it is. It's 2021. Any of us can go and look up a list of the contradictions people have found throughout the ages, then go and look up those verses on BibleHub and see that the text, in any of a dozen translations, are directly contradictory. Context does not help in the vast majority of these cases, as they are definitive claims of fact that are directly opposed. Probably my favorite bit is when Genesis says that god decided people could not live longer than 120 years, then later goes on to name a ton of people who lived for hundreds of years. We also know today that there is at least one person who lived longer than 120 years, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment . And of course I won't even get into just how fantastically contradictory every gospel is with the others over quite a startling array of details of the story of the death and ascension of Jesus.

tluyben2 5y ago

I don't find it offensive, I do not think it can be true and currently, at least in the EU where I live and have lived, this is seen in this day and age as an American thing (the end of Don't look up for instance). And that people on HN believe that (logically inconsistent stories interpreted differently; your interpretion is already different from versions practiced where I grew up, where, by the way, the churches closed down mostly now) is beyond me, but each their own. If it makes you happy, who cares what others think.

deafsquid69 5y ago