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“I don’t procrastinate anymore,” he added. “I’m sleeping better. I completely quit alcohol. I’m walking my dog and playing the guitar again, for nothing more th

by pcurve 5y ago

“I don’t procrastinate anymore,” he added. “I’m sleeping better. I completely quit alcohol. I’m walking my dog and playing the guitar again, for nothing more than the sheer joy of it.” Most importantly, he said, “I’m remaining positive and being respectful of others. These are big changes in my life.” Serious question: are these typical signs of depression? Now I'm wondering if I have depression.

cconstantine 5y ago
Yes, they can be. Self-diagnosing isn't a great idea; lots of non-depressed people have some symptoms of depression. It would probably be a good idea to find someone to talk with though.
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  Where "someone" is a therapist or counsellor. They can refer you on to someone who works with pharmaceuticals if necessary, but there's a lot to try before going that route.
  - rolleiflex 5y ago
    Heads up, ‘There is a lot to try before going that route’ is a medical opinion that is hard to notice. Exactly what the treatment plan would be and in what order is entirely up to the doctor and sometimes (often) the best thing that works is the actual drugs. I’m just conscious of this because I’ve seen this argument used to justify delaying actual treatment in favour of ‘alternative medicine’.
    - mikepurvis 5y ago
      True, yes, but nothing you hear in a CBT session should be super surprising. It may help you see things in a new way or understand the motivations of the other people involved in your life situations, but they're not going to tell you sleep with crystals or wear a magnetic bracelet or something. Basically the counselling/therapy part of the process would be identifying if there's a "real world" root cause to address ahead of going the pharma route and facing potential side effects, and/or the reality of having to go off it later and immediately regressing because the root cause hasn't been fixed. In any case, I'm obviously not a doctor; neither this post nor the GP should be construed as medical advice.
girvo 5y ago
Anecdotally, the lack of those things are definitely present in myself when I'm experiencing a depressive episode (I am diagnosed with clinical depression): I sleep badly, either not at all or for 12-18 hours a day, I drink far too much, I do not leave my house, and my hobbies either fall by the wayside entirely or I partake in them with no enjoyment or happiness from it. If you're experiencing those, it might be worth talking to a psychologist or your doctor (to get a referral): you don't have to tough it out. But people who don't have clinical depression also have those issues too, which is why the diagnostic criteria is a little more involved. For me, a short 3-4 month course of a particular SSRI lets me beat back the worst of it, and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy keeps it at bay. I haven't had an episode in years now
- gexla 5y ago
  Noticed that both you and the OP mentioned drinking. Just the drinking can cause much of this. Drinking screws up your sleep cycle, which can also cause much of this. Drinking sessions are also time consuming, so you have less time for other things you enjoy anyway. Sure, some things you can do while drinking, but those may not be the things you would prefer to be doing while sober.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - ethbr0 5y ago
    These effects fit serious online gaming pretty accurately too. Screws up your sleep cycle, is time consuming, causes you to not leave the house, makes other hobbies fall by the wayside.
  - ishche 5y ago
    I was under impression that an alcohol causes a depression.
    - girvo 5y ago
      Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant, which is commonly just shortened to “depressant”. This doesn’t mean it causes depression, it means it has a particular effect on us humans biologically. That said, it does also exacerbate clinical depression, so this gets confusing quickly!
mehphp 5y ago
I wouldn't rely on answers from HN. I don't have depression, but I do have anxiety, and professional help changed my life. It would not hurt to get an evaluation if you feel like something is off.
zamalek 5y ago
Procrastination isn't necessarily a sign, but if you're procrastinating on things you usually love (hobbies) then, yes. Talk to a professional. Depression is surprisingly common. Most people kick it after a month or so of meds (the individual in the article clearly has chronic depression).
ajaxexact 5y ago
If you feel persistently low, tired, unhappy, or unable to do things then it's a real possibility. The PHQ-9 is a pretty standard depression screening questionnaire that you can complete in a minute or two. https://www.mdcalc.com/phq-9-patient-health-questionnaire-9 https://www.mdcalc.com/phq-9-patient-health-questionnaire-9
- jondwillis 5y ago
  as someone with mental health issues going through a rather prolonged and winding down period, i’ve taken this before. just got my high score! going to bring this up with my therapist tomorrow
  - NotVerstappen 5y ago
    I am increasingly confident I suffer from depression, rather than just being generically miserable. How do you deal with the trust issues posed by that questionnaire? I have suicidal thoughts most days, but I'm concerned that revealing this to an NHS doctor would quickly result in my freedom of choice on what happens next being taken from me. Seems like one of the few cases where US healthcare (where you are explicitly a customer as well as a patient) has some advantages.
    - 371289891273 5y ago
      Involuntary admission works the same way in the US. I have kinda the same problem. I've had depression for a very long time - stable, but consistently declining. I get the "... or I could just kill myself" xapata mentioned a couple times per week and the reasons I don't are basically "that sounds like work" and "that would make my mother sad". Which aren't exactly good reasons, I know, but so far I've done very little actual self-harm and I very much don't want to get involuntarily admitted. I really would like to get help to deal with depression. I've battled it out alone with it for 15+ years and I'm not exactly winning that fight. But- anyone that's qualified to offer that help is pretty much legally required to admit me if I answer their screening questions somewhat truthfully. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    - 5y ago
LeonB 5y ago
Yes - those things are closely related to some of the diagnostic criteria used by some of the tests for depression. The remission of those symptoms is a quite a good signal all by itself. See for example https://www.medscape.com/answers/286759-14692/what-are-the-dsm-5-criteria-for-diagnosis-of-major-depressive-disorder-clinical-depression https://www.medscape.com/answers/286759-14692/what-are-the-d... And consider “ Diminished interest or loss of pleasure in almost all activities (anhedonia) “ — his ability to enjoy guitar for its own sake is a great sign. And “ Sleep disturbance (insomnia or hypersomnia) “ …he addresses that directly. But the presence of those symptoms doesn’t by itself mean that a major depressive episode is the best or only diagnosis. But having some of those symptoms is enough to indicate you should talk to a medical professional, as they are very troubling symptoms.
spaetzleesser 5y ago
Yes. When you have depression you get basically nothing done. Even things that used to be fun aren’t fun anymore. You are miserable if you do something or nothing.
throwDec21 5y ago
Procrastination, not enough sleep, alcohol and no hobbies sounds pretty normal for most people.
- ActorNightly 5y ago
  I think the criteria for a diagnosis is if it interferes with your regular day to day life (ability to hold a job, relationships, e.t.c)
- replwoacause 5y ago
  Lately I've been reflecting on the source of my low feelings and I have determined that in my case that alcohol is playing a key role. It is a de-motivator and its effects are pernicious in that it causes the user to become unaware that it is responsible for exacerbating depressed moods even after feeling intoxicated has worn off. I drink responsibly but think its time to cut it out to see if I feel better.
rubicon33 5y ago
I've had depression for 20+ years and the best way I would describe it is like this: Think of that little "kick" you get when you think of something you want to do. Maybe you like eating ice cream, maybe you like playing tennis, whatever it is... that feeling, that subconscious little mental boost that gets you up off your ass, and moving... is completely absent in the depressed mind. That spark that initiates and sustains action, is simply not there. Tasks, even small ones, are giant and the future is hopeless.
- xapata 5y ago
  It took me a while to realize that most people don't consider suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. Thought process: I don't want to do my homework. I could (A) get up and do it, or (B) kill myself. Happily, I've learned to dissociate myself from the part of my consciousness that thinks that way.
  - 1MachineElf 5y ago
    I'm dealing with something like this too. It's come up a lot while watching shows where some protagonist's friend turns psychotic and they suddenly must fight to survive. I keep thinking to myself, "just give up and let them kill you, it will be better that way!" I can't quite pinpoint the theme that seems to permeate all of these and how much of it is my own perspective versus some specific genre. I think of it a lot while watching The Future Diary, and also Higurashi: When They Cry.
  - beginnercounter 5y ago
    - DJBunnies 5y ago
      Or, you could try to be nicer when somebody makes themselves vulnerable to you.
    - totololo 5y ago
      So indelicately put.. Comes across (to my Euro mind) as an order doubled with an insult.
bserge 5y ago
comboy 5y ago
I think symptoms of depression are reduced to too few dimensions (these being all disorders names coming from a science which cannot reproduce most of its results). Imagine Einstein. He can't figure it out and solve the constant problem. Somethings not right. He's not happy, not sleeping well. He's thinking hard. But then, he takes a pill. Suddenly, no more thinking during bike rides. "I'm just looking around and dopamine rushes in, it's great". (I'm not discouraging treatment if you have a problem !! Positive feedback loop of negativity can kill you.) I just mean that if you have high standards you may be less easily satisfied. I do think it's good to be able to step back and really enjoy a walk or music without a care in the world, but I also don't think there's something wrong with people who don't, and instead just focus on their problem. Or even are just looking for a problem or a puzzle interesting enough to solve. It's all in the context. Sleep is important, you should sleep well. But maybe if you are lunching a rocket tomorrow it's fine to have a problem sleeping. Respect to others is the most basic thing, but maybe if they keep distracting you from work which can improve everybody's life it's ok to say something harsh but effective. And so on. I don't think you can truly change the world if you sincerely enjoy its current state.
- leafmeal 5y ago
  Anti-depressants aren't like a "happy pill". It's not like soma from a Brave New World.
  - comboy 5y ago
    OK, in too much simplified version: you not being content with the state of things may not necessarily be your fault - it may be the things fault. Of course you can change yourself, all problems are within you, they are created by your optimization function. Apocalypse is not a problem unless you don't want it to happen. Without people who don't make themself content with the state of things right now it's not a nice place to be. But without people who are not content and are trying to fix it it's not getting better. Just to be too verbose because of sensitive topic: it may be you, it may be chemical imbalance, I'm not saying it's a happy pill and long story short if you haven't experienced happiness in a long time go see a doctor yada yada. You can be happy during apocalypse when you are making progress towards ending it, you can not like things and accept it. I'm just making a case for unhappiness being the sane reaction in specific contexts. It's really hard to have a meaningful discussion about this topic without being seen as a murderer while providing a decent information density. Even on HN.
jokoon 5y ago
It's a very common condition. I think most depressions are mild or not invalidating, so people are functional, and they don't really seek treatment. Also the "just do it" mentality is very damaging to admitting people can be depressed.
foobarian 5y ago
Well now I wonder what the side effects are. Because if they are not serious I wouldn’t mind taking this drug just as a matter of course.

by pcurve 5y ago

cconstantine 5y ago

Yes, they can be. Self-diagnosing isn't a great idea; lots of non-depressed people have some symptoms of depression. It would probably be a good idea to find someone to talk with though.

mikepurvis 5y ago
Where "someone" is a therapist or counsellor. They can refer you on to someone who works with pharmaceuticals if necessary, but there's a lot to try before going that route.
- rolleiflex 5y ago
  Heads up, ‘There is a lot to try before going that route’ is a medical opinion that is hard to notice. Exactly what the treatment plan would be and in what order is entirely up to the doctor and sometimes (often) the best thing that works is the actual drugs. I’m just conscious of this because I’ve seen this argument used to justify delaying actual treatment in favour of ‘alternative medicine’.
  - mikepurvis 5y ago
    True, yes, but nothing you hear in a CBT session should be super surprising. It may help you see things in a new way or understand the motivations of the other people involved in your life situations, but they're not going to tell you sleep with crystals or wear a magnetic bracelet or something. Basically the counselling/therapy part of the process would be identifying if there's a "real world" root cause to address ahead of going the pharma route and facing potential side effects, and/or the reality of having to go off it later and immediately regressing because the root cause hasn't been fixed. In any case, I'm obviously not a doctor; neither this post nor the GP should be construed as medical advice.

girvo 5y ago

Anecdotally, the lack of those things are definitely present in myself when I'm experiencing a depressive episode (I am diagnosed with clinical depression): I sleep badly, either not at all or for 12-18 hours a day, I drink far too much, I do not leave my house, and my hobbies either fall by the wayside entirely or I partake in them with no enjoyment or happiness from it. If you're experiencing those, it might be worth talking to a psychologist or your doctor (to get a referral): you don't have to tough it out. But people who don't have clinical depression also have those issues too, which is why the diagnostic criteria is a little more involved. For me, a short 3-4 month course of a particular SSRI lets me beat back the worst of it, and Cognitive Behavioural Therapy keeps it at bay. I haven't had an episode in years now

gexla 5y ago
Noticed that both you and the OP mentioned drinking. Just the drinking can cause much of this. Drinking screws up your sleep cycle, which can also cause much of this. Drinking sessions are also time consuming, so you have less time for other things you enjoy anyway. Sure, some things you can do while drinking, but those may not be the things you would prefer to be doing while sober.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- ethbr0 5y ago
  These effects fit serious online gaming pretty accurately too. Screws up your sleep cycle, is time consuming, causes you to not leave the house, makes other hobbies fall by the wayside.
- ishche 5y ago
  I was under impression that an alcohol causes a depression.
  - girvo 5y ago
    Alcohol is a central nervous system depressant, which is commonly just shortened to “depressant”. This doesn’t mean it causes depression, it means it has a particular effect on us humans biologically. That said, it does also exacerbate clinical depression, so this gets confusing quickly!

mehphp 5y ago

I wouldn't rely on answers from HN. I don't have depression, but I do have anxiety, and professional help changed my life. It would not hurt to get an evaluation if you feel like something is off.

zamalek 5y ago

Procrastination isn't necessarily a sign, but if you're procrastinating on things you usually love (hobbies) then, yes. Talk to a professional. Depression is surprisingly common. Most people kick it after a month or so of meds (the individual in the article clearly has chronic depression).

ajaxexact 5y ago

If you feel persistently low, tired, unhappy, or unable to do things then it's a real possibility. The PHQ-9 is a pretty standard depression screening questionnaire that you can complete in a minute or two. https://www.mdcalc.com/phq-9-patient-health-questionnaire-9 https://www.mdcalc.com/phq-9-patient-health-questionnaire-9

jondwillis 5y ago
as someone with mental health issues going through a rather prolonged and winding down period, i’ve taken this before. just got my high score! going to bring this up with my therapist tomorrow
- NotVerstappen 5y ago
  I am increasingly confident I suffer from depression, rather than just being generically miserable. How do you deal with the trust issues posed by that questionnaire? I have suicidal thoughts most days, but I'm concerned that revealing this to an NHS doctor would quickly result in my freedom of choice on what happens next being taken from me. Seems like one of the few cases where US healthcare (where you are explicitly a customer as well as a patient) has some advantages.
  - 371289891273 5y ago
    Involuntary admission works the same way in the US. I have kinda the same problem. I've had depression for a very long time - stable, but consistently declining. I get the "... or I could just kill myself" xapata mentioned a couple times per week and the reasons I don't are basically "that sounds like work" and "that would make my mother sad". Which aren't exactly good reasons, I know, but so far I've done very little actual self-harm and I very much don't want to get involuntarily admitted. I really would like to get help to deal with depression. I've battled it out alone with it for 15+ years and I'm not exactly winning that fight. But- anyone that's qualified to offer that help is pretty much legally required to admit me if I answer their screening questions somewhat truthfully. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
  - 5y ago

LeonB 5y ago

Yes - those things are closely related to some of the diagnostic criteria used by some of the tests for depression. The remission of those symptoms is a quite a good signal all by itself. See for example https://www.medscape.com/answers/286759-14692/what-are-the-dsm-5-criteria-for-diagnosis-of-major-depressive-disorder-clinical-depression https://www.medscape.com/answers/286759-14692/what-are-the-d... And consider “ Diminished interest or loss of pleasure in almost all activities (anhedonia) “ — his ability to enjoy guitar for its own sake is a great sign. And “ Sleep disturbance (insomnia or hypersomnia) “ …he addresses that directly. But the presence of those symptoms doesn’t by itself mean that a major depressive episode is the best or only diagnosis. But having some of those symptoms is enough to indicate you should talk to a medical professional, as they are very troubling symptoms.

spaetzleesser 5y ago

Yes. When you have depression you get basically nothing done. Even things that used to be fun aren’t fun anymore. You are miserable if you do something or nothing.

throwDec21 5y ago

Procrastination, not enough sleep, alcohol and no hobbies sounds pretty normal for most people.

ActorNightly 5y ago
I think the criteria for a diagnosis is if it interferes with your regular day to day life (ability to hold a job, relationships, e.t.c)
replwoacause 5y ago
Lately I've been reflecting on the source of my low feelings and I have determined that in my case that alcohol is playing a key role. It is a de-motivator and its effects are pernicious in that it causes the user to become unaware that it is responsible for exacerbating depressed moods even after feeling intoxicated has worn off. I drink responsibly but think its time to cut it out to see if I feel better.

rubicon33 5y ago

I've had depression for 20+ years and the best way I would describe it is like this: Think of that little "kick" you get when you think of something you want to do. Maybe you like eating ice cream, maybe you like playing tennis, whatever it is... that feeling, that subconscious little mental boost that gets you up off your ass, and moving... is completely absent in the depressed mind. That spark that initiates and sustains action, is simply not there. Tasks, even small ones, are giant and the future is hopeless.

xapata 5y ago
It took me a while to realize that most people don't consider suicide as one of a few strategies to deal with everyday problems. Thought process: I don't want to do my homework. I could (A) get up and do it, or (B) kill myself. Happily, I've learned to dissociate myself from the part of my consciousness that thinks that way.
- 1MachineElf 5y ago
  I'm dealing with something like this too. It's come up a lot while watching shows where some protagonist's friend turns psychotic and they suddenly must fight to survive. I keep thinking to myself, "just give up and let them kill you, it will be better that way!" I can't quite pinpoint the theme that seems to permeate all of these and how much of it is my own perspective versus some specific genre. I think of it a lot while watching The Future Diary, and also Higurashi: When They Cry.
- beginnercounter 5y ago
  - DJBunnies 5y ago
    Or, you could try to be nicer when somebody makes themselves vulnerable to you.
  - totololo 5y ago
    So indelicately put.. Comes across (to my Euro mind) as an order doubled with an insult.

bserge 5y ago

comboy 5y ago

I think symptoms of depression are reduced to too few dimensions (these being all disorders names coming from a science which cannot reproduce most of its results). Imagine Einstein. He can't figure it out and solve the constant problem. Somethings not right. He's not happy, not sleeping well. He's thinking hard. But then, he takes a pill. Suddenly, no more thinking during bike rides. "I'm just looking around and dopamine rushes in, it's great". (I'm not discouraging treatment if you have a problem !! Positive feedback loop of negativity can kill you.) I just mean that if you have high standards you may be less easily satisfied. I do think it's good to be able to step back and really enjoy a walk or music without a care in the world, but I also don't think there's something wrong with people who don't, and instead just focus on their problem. Or even are just looking for a problem or a puzzle interesting enough to solve. It's all in the context. Sleep is important, you should sleep well. But maybe if you are lunching a rocket tomorrow it's fine to have a problem sleeping. Respect to others is the most basic thing, but maybe if they keep distracting you from work which can improve everybody's life it's ok to say something harsh but effective. And so on. I don't think you can truly change the world if you sincerely enjoy its current state.

leafmeal 5y ago
Anti-depressants aren't like a "happy pill". It's not like soma from a Brave New World.
- comboy 5y ago
  OK, in too much simplified version: you not being content with the state of things may not necessarily be your fault - it may be the things fault. Of course you can change yourself, all problems are within you, they are created by your optimization function. Apocalypse is not a problem unless you don't want it to happen. Without people who don't make themself content with the state of things right now it's not a nice place to be. But without people who are not content and are trying to fix it it's not getting better. Just to be too verbose because of sensitive topic: it may be you, it may be chemical imbalance, I'm not saying it's a happy pill and long story short if you haven't experienced happiness in a long time go see a doctor yada yada. You can be happy during apocalypse when you are making progress towards ending it, you can not like things and accept it. I'm just making a case for unhappiness being the sane reaction in specific contexts. It's really hard to have a meaningful discussion about this topic without being seen as a murderer while providing a decent information density. Even on HN.

jokoon 5y ago

It's a very common condition. I think most depressions are mild or not invalidating, so people are functional, and they don't really seek treatment. Also the "just do it" mentality is very damaging to admitting people can be depressed.

foobarian 5y ago

Well now I wonder what the side effects are. Because if they are not serious I wouldn’t mind taking this drug just as a matter of course.