5 ms·

When a recruiter reached out to me earlier this year, I knew two things: I would never work for Facebook, and I wanted to know how much they would pay. When the

When a recruiter reached out to me earlier this year, I knew two things: I would never work for Facebook, and I wanted to know how much they would pay. When the recruiter gave me the salary range, it made me seriously question the first thing. It was more than double my already-plentiful income as a senior dev. I took a day to think about it and then went with my original plan, but that's the answer about why people would work for them. I could have retired years earlier! Even two years working for them would have put quite a lot into my retirement fund. I told myself I wouldn't make it through the interview process, just to make myself feel better about giving up that cheddar.

echelon 5y ago
What if a startup working in that space couldn't compete on comp (yet), but offered 4 or 3 day work weeks. Would you be compelled by that?
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  Are you expected to work roughly the same amount in 3 or 4 days in this scenario? If so, it's not a draw for me (lots of employers let you just put in the hours when you want outside of meetings anyway) If by 3 day work week you mean you're expected to work roughly 60% as much for 60% the pay, then yes, I'd be interested (but I'm not the person you replied to)
  - boring_twenties 5y ago
    I'm going to guess that work 60% as much for 25% of the pay is what's actually being offered, and then working 120% as much for 25% of the pay will be the eventual result.
- nathanvanfleet 5y ago
  yes
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Startups can always compete on equity if they so choose.
japhyr 5y ago
I like to use the deathbed test for decisions like this. On my deathbed, whenever that day comes, will I be happy with the decision I'm about to make? It sounds like you will be happy with this decision.
- xenocratus 5y ago
  I'd say this is a very poor approach to deciding something because (in my somewhat uninformed opinion) it's very unlikely you'll have the same view of the world and what's important to you on your deathbed, though that obviously depends on what happens between now and then. See https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1229294 https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1229294
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Yep, I had a lot of 'I would never' kind of deathbed decisions which i would be happy with 10-20-30 years later. I rather look at current longterm goals: these might(do) change over time but that is the closest to deathbed goals as I can get.
ditonal 5y ago
It’s a huge misconception that Meta is outpaying everyone. If you’re willing to work in the Bay there are at least ten companies that will consistently beat them. Check levels.fyi For remote, I’m not sure, maybe Meta is best but unclear exactly what their remote situation is. I’ve read you’re second class citizen to MPK. Meta obviously pays super well but that’s reflective of SV paying well, they don’t stand out. They are just a better known brand. In fact despite their “toxic” brand I think they still have quite a strong overall engineering brand and many engineers interview there precisely because it “looks good on the resume.” This is especially true for the international crowd. Often times people only interview at famous companies and don’t realize the better options. Somehow FAANG has gotten reputation for being the king of compensation when none of those companies stand out, strong consumer brands and huge market caps putting them on finance radars is why they get talked about. FAANG as a term was coined by a stock analyst. Of course any individual case can vary a ton and Meta has deep pockets if they desperately want you, I’m just talking about standard IC senior E5 and staff E6 engineers. I’m not saying anyone has to move to the Bay or optimize their life for money, I’m just noting that if you do want the “cheddar” but don’t like Meta, you’re in luck. Many other companies will outpay them, I speak from experience as an IC engineer in the Bay whose spoken with many others who get offers.
- pwinnski 5y ago
  I was told I'd be looking at an offer in the $350k+ range working remotely, based on my location in Texas. If that's not outpaying everyone, I'm very interested in hearing of companies that aren't so repugnant willing to come close to that.
- staticassertion 5y ago
  > It’s a huge misconception that Meta is outpaying everyone. Offers can be pretty specific. I might be worth 300k to one company but 600k to another down the street. The ranges can get pretty ridiculous at a certain point. levels.fyi can't really cope with ranges like that, especially if you're being grabbed for a more niche role/ background that they're particularly eager to fill. What this means is that, no, you're not in luck. One company might legitimately pay you twice what the others will.
lordnacho 5y ago
> When the recruiter gave me the salary range, it made me seriously question the first thing. It was more than double my already-plentiful income as a senior dev. > I took a day to think about it... Give us numbers!
- jp42 5y ago
  https://www.levels.fyi https://www.levels.fyi
  - timClicks 5y ago
    That is useful for current salaries, but new hires are likely to start much higher than the median because labor supply is constrained.
    - tandymodel100 5y ago
      I'm not very smart and have 3 years of experience, but I got an offer for $265k recurring/$315k first year a few months ago for a full-remote position. I'm fairly confident I could have negotiated it up, but I ended up going with a pre-IPO company (because I didn't want to deal with their bootcamp process).
      - wbc 5y ago
        those #s just the cash portion or total comp (rsu's included)?
        tandymodel100 5y ago
        It’s all liquid. Base was around 165 with a target bonus percentage.
      - germinalphrase 5y ago
        These are surreal numbers. I need to quit teaching.
      - 5y ago
jldugger 5y ago
Equally importantly, HW / silicon jobs pay less well. People on the HWE side of the house frequently ponder switching to SW for the $$$
daxfohl 5y ago
I mean, it's certainly worth trying out for a bit. Even if you don't hang around for long enough to vest much of the RSU, their base salaries are pretty good too. It shouldn't take over a year or so to make up for any RSU you forfeit when leaving your previous job. And you get good leverage if you decide to boomerang later. And who knows, you may find that your preconceptions were wrong, and end up liking the job.
vm2196 5y ago
TC or GTFO

echelon 5y ago

What if a startup working in that space couldn't compete on comp (yet), but offered 4 or 3 day work weeks. Would you be compelled by that?

pcthrowaway 5y ago
Are you expected to work roughly the same amount in 3 or 4 days in this scenario? If so, it's not a draw for me (lots of employers let you just put in the hours when you want outside of meetings anyway) If by 3 day work week you mean you're expected to work roughly 60% as much for 60% the pay, then yes, I'd be interested (but I'm not the person you replied to)
- boring_twenties 5y ago
  I'm going to guess that work 60% as much for 25% of the pay is what's actually being offered, and then working 120% as much for 25% of the pay will be the eventual result.
nathanvanfleet 5y ago
yes
arcticbull 5y ago
Startups can always compete on equity if they so choose.

japhyr 5y ago

I like to use the deathbed test for decisions like this. On my deathbed, whenever that day comes, will I be happy with the decision I'm about to make? It sounds like you will be happy with this decision.

xenocratus 5y ago
I'd say this is a very poor approach to deciding something because (in my somewhat uninformed opinion) it's very unlikely you'll have the same view of the world and what's important to you on your deathbed, though that obviously depends on what happens between now and then. See https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1229294 https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1229294
- tluyben2 5y ago
  Yep, I had a lot of 'I would never' kind of deathbed decisions which i would be happy with 10-20-30 years later. I rather look at current longterm goals: these might(do) change over time but that is the closest to deathbed goals as I can get.

ditonal 5y ago

It’s a huge misconception that Meta is outpaying everyone. If you’re willing to work in the Bay there are at least ten companies that will consistently beat them. Check levels.fyi For remote, I’m not sure, maybe Meta is best but unclear exactly what their remote situation is. I’ve read you’re second class citizen to MPK. Meta obviously pays super well but that’s reflective of SV paying well, they don’t stand out. They are just a better known brand. In fact despite their “toxic” brand I think they still have quite a strong overall engineering brand and many engineers interview there precisely because it “looks good on the resume.” This is especially true for the international crowd. Often times people only interview at famous companies and don’t realize the better options. Somehow FAANG has gotten reputation for being the king of compensation when none of those companies stand out, strong consumer brands and huge market caps putting them on finance radars is why they get talked about. FAANG as a term was coined by a stock analyst. Of course any individual case can vary a ton and Meta has deep pockets if they desperately want you, I’m just talking about standard IC senior E5 and staff E6 engineers. I’m not saying anyone has to move to the Bay or optimize their life for money, I’m just noting that if you do want the “cheddar” but don’t like Meta, you’re in luck. Many other companies will outpay them, I speak from experience as an IC engineer in the Bay whose spoken with many others who get offers.

pwinnski 5y ago
I was told I'd be looking at an offer in the $350k+ range working remotely, based on my location in Texas. If that's not outpaying everyone, I'm very interested in hearing of companies that aren't so repugnant willing to come close to that.
staticassertion 5y ago
> It’s a huge misconception that Meta is outpaying everyone. Offers can be pretty specific. I might be worth 300k to one company but 600k to another down the street. The ranges can get pretty ridiculous at a certain point. levels.fyi can't really cope with ranges like that, especially if you're being grabbed for a more niche role/ background that they're particularly eager to fill. What this means is that, no, you're not in luck. One company might legitimately pay you twice what the others will.

lordnacho 5y ago

> When the recruiter gave me the salary range, it made me seriously question the first thing. It was more than double my already-plentiful income as a senior dev. > I took a day to think about it... Give us numbers!

jp42 5y ago
https://www.levels.fyi https://www.levels.fyi
- timClicks 5y ago
  That is useful for current salaries, but new hires are likely to start much higher than the median because labor supply is constrained.
  - tandymodel100 5y ago
    I'm not very smart and have 3 years of experience, but I got an offer for $265k recurring/$315k first year a few months ago for a full-remote position. I'm fairly confident I could have negotiated it up, but I ended up going with a pre-IPO company (because I didn't want to deal with their bootcamp process).
    - wbc 5y ago
      those #s just the cash portion or total comp (rsu's included)?
      - tandymodel100 5y ago
        It’s all liquid. Base was around 165 with a target bonus percentage.
    - germinalphrase 5y ago
      These are surreal numbers. I need to quit teaching.
    - 5y ago

jldugger 5y ago

Equally importantly, HW / silicon jobs pay less well. People on the HWE side of the house frequently ponder switching to SW for the $$$

daxfohl 5y ago

I mean, it's certainly worth trying out for a bit. Even if you don't hang around for long enough to vest much of the RSU, their base salaries are pretty good too. It shouldn't take over a year or so to make up for any RSU you forfeit when leaving your previous job. And you get good leverage if you decide to boomerang later. And who knows, you may find that your preconceptions were wrong, and end up liking the job.

vm2196 5y ago

TC or GTFO