8 ms·

Why would people go to Meta right now? Seems like the FB brand is super toxic; you'd have to pay me a metric shitload to work for a company that's being compare

Why would people go to Meta right now? Seems like the FB brand is super toxic; you'd have to pay me a metric shitload to work for a company that's being compared to the modern day tobacco industry

gfxgirl 5y ago
no other company has bet their future on VR/AR , at least not publically. If you want to do VR or AR there aren't really many other choices.
Jansen312 5y ago
Everyone has a price....at least I believe that is what Zuck is thinking of. Meta is his goldmine. He needs miners for his Meta goldmine at whatever the price is. If he offer a pay....say worth twice what one can get at Apple, it is worthwhile for some to try their luck in Meta. 10 years wasted in Meta will only be 5 years missing in Apple for example. It still will look good in one resume having been "land developer" or "founding fathers and mothers" in Metaverse.
compiler-guy 5y ago
Word on the street is that Meta is paying big time to overcome the toxic brand. So if you aren't personally too bothered by it all (and some people aren't), then you can rake in the cash. https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-pays-brand-tax-hire-talent-fears-career-black-mark-2021-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-pays-brand-tax-hire...
- steve_adams_86 5y ago
  They’re also hiring very aggressively from what I can tell. They have recruiters all over and the path to interviewing is remarkably short. I didn’t bother because I like my job and I suspect their salaries in Canada will be very… Canadian.
  - wittycardio 5y ago
    No their salaries are quite Californian
    - steve_adams_86 5y ago
      Cool, thanks for that. I’ve been hesitating recommending looking into meta in Canada because so many companies see Canada as a cheap source of talent.
      - wittycardio 5y ago
        I mean it's still lower than peak bay area salaries but the Toronto scale is completely different from even like 2 years ago
        steve_adams_86 5y ago
        Same with the Victoria scale. It wasn’t uncommon to see companies kind of capping out around $90k. I had to negotiate way too hard before I started working remotely instead. Since then I see rates around 120-150k in senior roles, which isn’t that much better with general COL inflation around here, but it’s an improvement. I think you’d generally do better by working remotely, still.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  They pay a bit better than other FAANGs but it's not hugely out of line. Chances are if you can get a gig at Meta, you can get one at any of the others. Apple, for what it's worth pays a bit less than the FAANG median. The sweet spot at this stage in the capitalist narrative arc is like a Series C/D startup that's found product-market fit and is rapidly growing. You'll get the same cash, and while there's a bit more risk, the equity could be dramatically more rewarding. Right on the knee of the curve.
  - lordnacho 5y ago
    > The sweet spot at this stage in the capitalist narrative arc is like a Series C/D startup that's found product-market fit and is rapidly growing. You'll get the same cash, and while there's a bit more risk, the equity could be dramatically more rewarding. Right on the knee of the curve. Don't they use that spiel to get you to take less salary and a smaller cut of equity?
    - arcticbull 5y ago
      > Don't they use that spiel to get you to take less salary and a smaller cut of equity? They sure used to, but these days at a funded and successful C/D you'll get very similar cash. The market for engineers is insane right now. I've seen Meta starting salary levels offered by even earlier stage companies. [edit] As for the equity angle, it really depends - but generally speaking if you're being offered options I'd divide by 3 when comparing to an RSU offer (i.e. expect 3X as many options as RSUs) which triples your leverage even if they're intrinsically not worth anything on receipt. And depending on the stage, that equity could easily be dramatically more valuable even if you get less to start. This is more of a question of how much leverage you have in your negotiation. I highly recommend becoming friends with a recruiter wherever you work :) being able to find out what you should be making next time is a super-power, and they're generally super fun and friendly people!
      - runako 5y ago
        The missing element from the RSU/options conversion is the (very important) liquidity premium. For a Series C company, I would expect to not see material liquidity from options for 4+ years, so I would discount the options by at least 70% off the top to account for lack of liquidity and possibility of future funding rounds reducing the value of my options. Engineers who had options during the .com crash and the GFC can share more about why near-term liquidity matters.
- nathanvanfleet 5y ago
  That will be quite the filter on who works there.
wombat-man 5y ago
For me it's not even that. It sounds like they're full speed ahead on what seems to be some kind of boring VR video game. Unless they really surprise us, I think they're jumping the shark in a big way.
decebalus1 5y ago
Not everyone has the same thresholds wrt to morality. There are software engineers making peanuts while writing some of the most unethical crap you'd imagine. I too would require a ton of money to suppress my feelings against facebook in order to work for them. Others are just looking to get into FAANG... And it's hard to believe (it took me a while to reach out of my bubble and realize this), but there are people who legit think Facebook has a positive effect on society. So.. yeah
pyrophane 5y ago
I've heard they are in fact giving offers in the "metric shitload" range.
aero-glide2 5y ago
React, pytorch, quest, etc. Meta is not just Facebook.
- cheeze 5y ago
  But it's all Zuckerberg. It's not just Facebook that I despise.
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Reach and PyTorch are I believe developed within the Facebook arm. I assume by Quest you mean Oculus, so that's off to the side but... like, not really.
- decebalus1 5y ago
  Nah.. all roads lead to Rome. This is all fake technical diversity. You just need to look at Meta's revenue model, consider it's not a non-profit and then realize that pretty much any piece of work ends up one way or another to Facebook.
  - wittycardio 5y ago
    This hate of Facebook is massively overblown from both the right and left wing. The right hates the fact that the online population is younger and more inherently liberal and the left needed a convenient excuse for their electoral failures. I don't see them as a particularly evil corporation. Their engineering talent is exceptional and they have ambitious goals. Seems like a great place to work ( fyi I don't work there )
    - decebalus1 5y ago
      Probably. I'm not a political analyst to have valid opinions about which wing hates what corporation and why. Quite frankly I couldn't give a shit. I just have a fundamental issue with their core product and ambitious 'goals'
pwinnski 5y ago
When a recruiter reached out to me earlier this year, I knew two things: I would never work for Facebook, and I wanted to know how much they would pay. When the recruiter gave me the salary range, it made me seriously question the first thing. It was more than double my already-plentiful income as a senior dev. I took a day to think about it and then went with my original plan, but that's the answer about why people would work for them. I could have retired years earlier! Even two years working for them would have put quite a lot into my retirement fund. I told myself I wouldn't make it through the interview process, just to make myself feel better about giving up that cheddar.
- echelon 5y ago
  What if a startup working in that space couldn't compete on comp (yet), but offered 4 or 3 day work weeks. Would you be compelled by that?
  - pcthrowaway 5y ago
    Are you expected to work roughly the same amount in 3 or 4 days in this scenario? If so, it's not a draw for me (lots of employers let you just put in the hours when you want outside of meetings anyway) If by 3 day work week you mean you're expected to work roughly 60% as much for 60% the pay, then yes, I'd be interested (but I'm not the person you replied to)
    - boring_twenties 5y ago
      I'm going to guess that work 60% as much for 25% of the pay is what's actually being offered, and then working 120% as much for 25% of the pay will be the eventual result.
  - nathanvanfleet 5y ago
    yes
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    Startups can always compete on equity if they so choose.
lettergram 5y ago
When you get a call offering mid to high six figures you’ll consider it. Frankly, I view apple as equally poor, and wouldn’t consider working there. To put it into perspective, an accountant might make $60k a year. A senior dev at meta can make (total comp) $600-700k a year.
KaiserPro 5y ago
Depends. In some areas its doing some very exciting work, if you believe in yourself enough you might think that you can shape the future of AR or VR. (if you're a software engineer, then you'll be one of 4k other who are doing that) For a hardware engineer, you are going to be given much more free reign, and don't have to worry about the cloak and dagger cult shit that apple insist on. also, a stonking wage.
asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
It's a lot more toxic to HN users than to the general public. They pay well, they're making a lot of money, and they have lots of interesting problems to solve. It doesn't seem like much of a mystery to me why so many would want to work for them.
- jeremyjh 5y ago
  Are you saying senior engineers who don’t use HN have different values from those that do?
  - asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
    Yep, that is what I'm saying. Most of my real life SWE friends have attitudes that seem different from folks on this site. Perhaps they are secretly harboring the same views, but I'd guess that there is a selection effect that biases the sort of folks who comment here.
  - wikibob 5y ago
    > Are you saying senior engineers who don’t use HN have different values from those that do? Absolutely yes. HN posters are by far the noisy minority. Even on HN the vast majority of readers don’t post. HN posters are a sliver of a sliver.
  - sigstoat 5y ago
    > Are you saying senior engineers who don’t use HN have different values from those that do? non-california, non-big city senior engineers have wildly different values from HN users. i'm not sure about non-HN big city or california engineers. i suspect that HN accurately reflects the values of folks working in SF/LA. if i tried to explain the shit HN freaks out about every day to my coworkers, they'd think i was making everything up.
  - steelstraw 5y ago
    They don't even necessarily have different values. A lot of online people are virtue signaling to get virtual points.
  - 5y ago
mattnewton 5y ago
They are paying a shitload more, maybe not the metric shitload for your price but it is for plenty of people I know. Annecdotally I have seen offers of TC > 550k for L5 engineers in my network.
kache_ 5y ago
Money. Lots and lots of fuckin money. I morally stand against writing closed source software, and centralizing control over software. Yet I work for these megacorps. You know why? Lots of fuckin money.
daxfohl 5y ago
I think it makes sense to be a moral contrarian in these regards. All big companies are more or less the same, and public perception is fickle. Take advantage of the disparity.

Why would people go to Meta right now? Seems like the FB brand is super toxic; you'd have to pay me a metric shitload to work for a company that's being compared to the modern day tobacco industry

gfxgirl 5y ago

no other company has bet their future on VR/AR , at least not publically. If you want to do VR or AR there aren't really many other choices.

Jansen312 5y ago

Everyone has a price....at least I believe that is what Zuck is thinking of. Meta is his goldmine. He needs miners for his Meta goldmine at whatever the price is. If he offer a pay....say worth twice what one can get at Apple, it is worthwhile for some to try their luck in Meta. 10 years wasted in Meta will only be 5 years missing in Apple for example. It still will look good in one resume having been "land developer" or "founding fathers and mothers" in Metaverse.

compiler-guy 5y ago

Word on the street is that Meta is paying big time to overcome the toxic brand. So if you aren't personally too bothered by it all (and some people aren't), then you can rake in the cash. https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-pays-brand-tax-hire-talent-fears-career-black-mark-2021-12 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-pays-brand-tax-hire...

steve_adams_86 5y ago
They’re also hiring very aggressively from what I can tell. They have recruiters all over and the path to interviewing is remarkably short. I didn’t bother because I like my job and I suspect their salaries in Canada will be very… Canadian.
- wittycardio 5y ago
  No their salaries are quite Californian
  - steve_adams_86 5y ago
    Cool, thanks for that. I’ve been hesitating recommending looking into meta in Canada because so many companies see Canada as a cheap source of talent.
    - wittycardio 5y ago
      I mean it's still lower than peak bay area salaries but the Toronto scale is completely different from even like 2 years ago
      - steve_adams_86 5y ago
        Same with the Victoria scale. It wasn’t uncommon to see companies kind of capping out around $90k. I had to negotiate way too hard before I started working remotely instead. Since then I see rates around 120-150k in senior roles, which isn’t that much better with general COL inflation around here, but it’s an improvement. I think you’d generally do better by working remotely, still.
arcticbull 5y ago
They pay a bit better than other FAANGs but it's not hugely out of line. Chances are if you can get a gig at Meta, you can get one at any of the others. Apple, for what it's worth pays a bit less than the FAANG median. The sweet spot at this stage in the capitalist narrative arc is like a Series C/D startup that's found product-market fit and is rapidly growing. You'll get the same cash, and while there's a bit more risk, the equity could be dramatically more rewarding. Right on the knee of the curve.
- lordnacho 5y ago
  > The sweet spot at this stage in the capitalist narrative arc is like a Series C/D startup that's found product-market fit and is rapidly growing. You'll get the same cash, and while there's a bit more risk, the equity could be dramatically more rewarding. Right on the knee of the curve. Don't they use that spiel to get you to take less salary and a smaller cut of equity?
  - arcticbull 5y ago
    > Don't they use that spiel to get you to take less salary and a smaller cut of equity? They sure used to, but these days at a funded and successful C/D you'll get very similar cash. The market for engineers is insane right now. I've seen Meta starting salary levels offered by even earlier stage companies. [edit] As for the equity angle, it really depends - but generally speaking if you're being offered options I'd divide by 3 when comparing to an RSU offer (i.e. expect 3X as many options as RSUs) which triples your leverage even if they're intrinsically not worth anything on receipt. And depending on the stage, that equity could easily be dramatically more valuable even if you get less to start. This is more of a question of how much leverage you have in your negotiation. I highly recommend becoming friends with a recruiter wherever you work :) being able to find out what you should be making next time is a super-power, and they're generally super fun and friendly people!
    - runako 5y ago
      The missing element from the RSU/options conversion is the (very important) liquidity premium. For a Series C company, I would expect to not see material liquidity from options for 4+ years, so I would discount the options by at least 70% off the top to account for lack of liquidity and possibility of future funding rounds reducing the value of my options. Engineers who had options during the .com crash and the GFC can share more about why near-term liquidity matters.
nathanvanfleet 5y ago
That will be quite the filter on who works there.

wombat-man 5y ago

For me it's not even that. It sounds like they're full speed ahead on what seems to be some kind of boring VR video game. Unless they really surprise us, I think they're jumping the shark in a big way.

decebalus1 5y ago

Not everyone has the same thresholds wrt to morality. There are software engineers making peanuts while writing some of the most unethical crap you'd imagine. I too would require a ton of money to suppress my feelings against facebook in order to work for them. Others are just looking to get into FAANG... And it's hard to believe (it took me a while to reach out of my bubble and realize this), but there are people who legit think Facebook has a positive effect on society. So.. yeah

pyrophane 5y ago

I've heard they are in fact giving offers in the "metric shitload" range.

aero-glide2 5y ago

React, pytorch, quest, etc. Meta is not just Facebook.

cheeze 5y ago
But it's all Zuckerberg. It's not just Facebook that I despise.
arcticbull 5y ago
Reach and PyTorch are I believe developed within the Facebook arm. I assume by Quest you mean Oculus, so that's off to the side but... like, not really.
decebalus1 5y ago
Nah.. all roads lead to Rome. This is all fake technical diversity. You just need to look at Meta's revenue model, consider it's not a non-profit and then realize that pretty much any piece of work ends up one way or another to Facebook.
- wittycardio 5y ago
  This hate of Facebook is massively overblown from both the right and left wing. The right hates the fact that the online population is younger and more inherently liberal and the left needed a convenient excuse for their electoral failures. I don't see them as a particularly evil corporation. Their engineering talent is exceptional and they have ambitious goals. Seems like a great place to work ( fyi I don't work there )
  - decebalus1 5y ago
    Probably. I'm not a political analyst to have valid opinions about which wing hates what corporation and why. Quite frankly I couldn't give a shit. I just have a fundamental issue with their core product and ambitious 'goals'

pwinnski 5y ago

When a recruiter reached out to me earlier this year, I knew two things: I would never work for Facebook, and I wanted to know how much they would pay. When the recruiter gave me the salary range, it made me seriously question the first thing. It was more than double my already-plentiful income as a senior dev. I took a day to think about it and then went with my original plan, but that's the answer about why people would work for them. I could have retired years earlier! Even two years working for them would have put quite a lot into my retirement fund. I told myself I wouldn't make it through the interview process, just to make myself feel better about giving up that cheddar.

echelon 5y ago
What if a startup working in that space couldn't compete on comp (yet), but offered 4 or 3 day work weeks. Would you be compelled by that?
- pcthrowaway 5y ago
  Are you expected to work roughly the same amount in 3 or 4 days in this scenario? If so, it's not a draw for me (lots of employers let you just put in the hours when you want outside of meetings anyway) If by 3 day work week you mean you're expected to work roughly 60% as much for 60% the pay, then yes, I'd be interested (but I'm not the person you replied to)
  - boring_twenties 5y ago
    I'm going to guess that work 60% as much for 25% of the pay is what's actually being offered, and then working 120% as much for 25% of the pay will be the eventual result.
- nathanvanfleet 5y ago
  yes
- arcticbull 5y ago
  Startups can always compete on equity if they so choose.

lettergram 5y ago

When you get a call offering mid to high six figures you’ll consider it. Frankly, I view apple as equally poor, and wouldn’t consider working there. To put it into perspective, an accountant might make $60k a year. A senior dev at meta can make (total comp) $600-700k a year.

KaiserPro 5y ago

Depends. In some areas its doing some very exciting work, if you believe in yourself enough you might think that you can shape the future of AR or VR. (if you're a software engineer, then you'll be one of 4k other who are doing that) For a hardware engineer, you are going to be given much more free reign, and don't have to worry about the cloak and dagger cult shit that apple insist on. also, a stonking wage.

asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago

It's a lot more toxic to HN users than to the general public. They pay well, they're making a lot of money, and they have lots of interesting problems to solve. It doesn't seem like much of a mystery to me why so many would want to work for them.

jeremyjh 5y ago
Are you saying senior engineers who don’t use HN have different values from those that do?
- asdfasgasdgasdg 5y ago
  Yep, that is what I'm saying. Most of my real life SWE friends have attitudes that seem different from folks on this site. Perhaps they are secretly harboring the same views, but I'd guess that there is a selection effect that biases the sort of folks who comment here.
- wikibob 5y ago
  > Are you saying senior engineers who don’t use HN have different values from those that do? Absolutely yes. HN posters are by far the noisy minority. Even on HN the vast majority of readers don’t post. HN posters are a sliver of a sliver.
- sigstoat 5y ago
  > Are you saying senior engineers who don’t use HN have different values from those that do? non-california, non-big city senior engineers have wildly different values from HN users. i'm not sure about non-HN big city or california engineers. i suspect that HN accurately reflects the values of folks working in SF/LA. if i tried to explain the shit HN freaks out about every day to my coworkers, they'd think i was making everything up.
- steelstraw 5y ago
  They don't even necessarily have different values. A lot of online people are virtue signaling to get virtual points.
- 5y ago

mattnewton 5y ago

They are paying a shitload more, maybe not the metric shitload for your price but it is for plenty of people I know. Annecdotally I have seen offers of TC > 550k for L5 engineers in my network.

kache_ 5y ago

Money. Lots and lots of fuckin money. I morally stand against writing closed source software, and centralizing control over software. Yet I work for these megacorps. You know why? Lots of fuckin money.

daxfohl 5y ago

I think it makes sense to be a moral contrarian in these regards. All big companies are more or less the same, and public perception is fickle. Take advantage of the disparity.