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Don’t forget this gem: > Missing or Kidnapped Children: You may be able to claim a child who was kidnapped by a non-family member. IRS treats a kidnapped child

Don’t forget this gem: > Missing or Kidnapped Children: You may be able to claim a child who was kidnapped by a non-family member. IRS treats a kidnapped child as living with you for more than half of the year if the child lived with you for more than half the part of the year before the date of the kidnapping. https://www.eitc.irs.gov/other-refundable-credits-toolkit/understanding-who-is-a-qualifying-child/understanding-who-is-a https://www.eitc.irs.gov/other-refundable-credits-toolkit/un...

seventytwo 5y ago
There’s some legit arguments for doing this - 1) even if the kid is kidnapped, we still theoretically want the person watching that child to receive financial support (keep in mind most kidnappings are from ex-spouses or other family members). 2) It provides one more paper trail for authorities to track the child down.
- jandrese 5y ago
  The rule specifically calls out non-family members though.
cecilpl2 5y ago
What if you kidnapped someone else's child, can you claim them on your taxes?
- hartator 5y ago
  Probably if it’s more than 6 calendar months.
- mleo 5y ago
  Maybe not 100% requirement, but we have always had the kids’ social security number on taxes. Might make it more difficult to claim without.
- sdenton4 5y ago
  The text is very close to being symmetric; it's just the 'before the date of the kidnapping' which keeps it from applying to the kidnapper.
- DarylZero 5y ago
  The same person can only be claimed as a dependent from one person. So the kidnapper has to wait until the next tax year to claim the kidnap victim.
  - kiklion 5y ago
    I mean, that’s why the person had to be kidnapped by a non-family member. If a family member kidnaps them the it follows the usual formula of who cared for the kidnapped person for half the year plus a day.
  - cletus 5y ago
    I imagine there's a real drop in kidnappings after July 1 then. That's just sensible tax planning.
    - Hamuko 5y ago
      Surely kidnapping a child for over six months if not sensible financial planning in any way. You're just spending more money to kept the child fed for the same amount of ransom.
      - howdydoo 5y ago
        A good number of people claim their kids as dependents but (unfortunately) don't take great care of them otherwise
      - dylan604 5y ago
        Are you able to claim deductions for the expenses incurred in attempting to avoid detection by the FBI? It is technically business expenses.
        cletus 5y ago
        Yes but it’s only deductible against kidnapping related income.
- desdiv 5y ago
  The thought of a kidnapper inquiring about the child's social security number in the ransom note is pretty good dark humor. But I think the IRS has some restrictions on who you can claim as your dependent. To claim someone as your dependent child, they must be either: - Your son, daughter, stepchild, foster child, or a descendant (for example, your grandchild) of any of them; or - Your brother, sister, half brother, half sister, stepbrother, stepsister, or a descendant (for example, your niece or nephew) of any of them. To claim someone as your dependent relative, they must be either: - Your child, stepchild, foster child, or a descendant of any of them (for example, your grandchild). (A legally adopted child is considered your child.) - Your brother, sister, half brother, half sister, stepbrother, or stepsister. - Your father, mother, grandparent, or other direct ancestor, but not foster parent. - Your stepfather or stepmother. - A son or daughter of your brother or sister. - A son or daughter of your half brother or half sister. - A brother or sister of your father or mother. - Your son-in-law, daughter-in-law, father-in-law, mother-in-law, brother-in-law, or sister-in-law. [0] https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000220886 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000... [1] https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000220939 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000...
  - SilasX 5y ago
    >The thought of a kidnapper inquiring about the child's social security number in the ransom note is pretty good dark humor. lol yeah I'm imagining some skit (or real life situation!) where the kidnapper is calling in to the IRS and explaining the situation to the agent, who dutifully works through the flowchart about which statuses apply when, completely oblivious to the missing child they're dealing with. And then they just sit there listening in while the kidnapper interrogates the child for the SSN before coming back and reporting that they "can't obtain it", followed by the agent reading off their options. With that said, not all "kidnappings" in this context are the "masked men/unmarked van" type, I assume you have these same considerations for stuff like "other legal guardian picked up child three days before court authorized them to".
    - bluGill 5y ago
      Because you are legally obliged to tell the IRS of this crime they are not allowed to tell the police about it as then telling the IRS would be self incrimination against the 5th amendment. Though the IRS has other ways to inform the police if they can find anything you didn't tell them
- hinkley 5y ago
  The IRS got mixed up in anti-mob activity in Chicago. They couldn't get anything to stick locally, but they could get them on tax evasion. They didn't have to prove the money was obtained by a particular crime, they just had to prove they hadn't paid taxes on it. This conversation feels... familiar.
VWWHFSfQ 5y ago
It seems funny but what else are they supposed to do? Otherwise people would still be claiming dependents on kids gone since the 70s
- 650REDHAIR 5y ago
  If your kid is kidnapped you should get a break…
  - vikingerik 5y ago
    If you reward something, you get more of it. This creates a black market of arranging kidnappings for the tax break. The original topic about stolen property is the patch for the same kind of loophole. Without this rule, you could arrange to have something of value stolen in order to avoid a taxable transaction. Imagine your employer giving a bonus by leaving an envelope of cash conspicuously unguarded.
    - roughly 5y ago
      > If you reward something, you get more of it. This creates a black market of arranging kidnappings for the tax break. This is the kind of unhinged batshit economic thinking that leads to people dying because they can’t afford insulin.
      - ahzhou 5y ago
        It’s not that crazy. People sometimes sell their baby off to finance gambling debts. Some parents are terrible and we shouldn’t be giving them economic reason to have more children.
      - qeternity 5y ago
        No, it's not. This is a well studied phenomenon, and completely unrelated to healthcare affordability.
        5y ago
duxup 5y ago
I’m sure someone asked so… gotta have an answer.
treeman79 5y ago
My older half sister was kidnapped repeatedly by her bio parents. Legal custody seemed to be whomever had the kid in whichever state at any given time. One episode ended when her bio dad showed up at air port with a shotgun and bio-mom had convinced the out of state police to be on her side. After a night in jail anyway. Police made the bio-dad go home. My mom tailed her at school for a few years. Stopping another attempt before it ended. Was messed up every way possible.
- kerneloftruth 5y ago
  Who did your older sister prefer and want to live with... the biological parents, or the other family?
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
kerneloftruth 5y ago
So there is a Child Tax Credit... of sorts. /s

seventytwo 5y ago

There’s some legit arguments for doing this - 1) even if the kid is kidnapped, we still theoretically want the person watching that child to receive financial support (keep in mind most kidnappings are from ex-spouses or other family members). 2) It provides one more paper trail for authorities to track the child down.

jandrese 5y ago
The rule specifically calls out non-family members though.

cecilpl2 5y ago

What if you kidnapped someone else's child, can you claim them on your taxes?

hartator 5y ago
Probably if it’s more than 6 calendar months.
mleo 5y ago
Maybe not 100% requirement, but we have always had the kids’ social security number on taxes. Might make it more difficult to claim without.
sdenton4 5y ago
The text is very close to being symmetric; it's just the 'before the date of the kidnapping' which keeps it from applying to the kidnapper.
DarylZero 5y ago
The same person can only be claimed as a dependent from one person. So the kidnapper has to wait until the next tax year to claim the kidnap victim.
- kiklion 5y ago
  I mean, that’s why the person had to be kidnapped by a non-family member. If a family member kidnaps them the it follows the usual formula of who cared for the kidnapped person for half the year plus a day.
- cletus 5y ago
  I imagine there's a real drop in kidnappings after July 1 then. That's just sensible tax planning.
  - Hamuko 5y ago
    Surely kidnapping a child for over six months if not sensible financial planning in any way. You're just spending more money to kept the child fed for the same amount of ransom.
    - howdydoo 5y ago
      A good number of people claim their kids as dependents but (unfortunately) don't take great care of them otherwise
    - dylan604 5y ago
      Are you able to claim deductions for the expenses incurred in attempting to avoid detection by the FBI? It is technically business expenses.
      - cletus 5y ago
        Yes but it’s only deductible against kidnapping related income.
desdiv 5y ago
The thought of a kidnapper inquiring about the child's social security number in the ransom note is pretty good dark humor. But I think the IRS has some restrictions on who you can claim as your dependent. To claim someone as your dependent child, they must be either: - Your son, daughter, stepchild, foster child, or a descendant (for example, your grandchild) of any of them; or - Your brother, sister, half brother, half sister, stepbrother, stepsister, or a descendant (for example, your niece or nephew) of any of them. To claim someone as your dependent relative, they must be either: - Your child, stepchild, foster child, or a descendant of any of them (for example, your grandchild). (A legally adopted child is considered your child.) - Your brother, sister, half brother, half sister, stepbrother, or stepsister. - Your father, mother, grandparent, or other direct ancestor, but not foster parent. - Your stepfather or stepmother. - A son or daughter of your brother or sister. - A son or daughter of your half brother or half sister. - A brother or sister of your father or mother. - Your son-in-law, daughter-in-law, father-in-law, mother-in-law, brother-in-law, or sister-in-law. [0] https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000220886 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000... [1] https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000220939 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p501#en_US_2020_publink1000...
- SilasX 5y ago
  >The thought of a kidnapper inquiring about the child's social security number in the ransom note is pretty good dark humor. lol yeah I'm imagining some skit (or real life situation!) where the kidnapper is calling in to the IRS and explaining the situation to the agent, who dutifully works through the flowchart about which statuses apply when, completely oblivious to the missing child they're dealing with. And then they just sit there listening in while the kidnapper interrogates the child for the SSN before coming back and reporting that they "can't obtain it", followed by the agent reading off their options. With that said, not all "kidnappings" in this context are the "masked men/unmarked van" type, I assume you have these same considerations for stuff like "other legal guardian picked up child three days before court authorized them to".
  - bluGill 5y ago
    Because you are legally obliged to tell the IRS of this crime they are not allowed to tell the police about it as then telling the IRS would be self incrimination against the 5th amendment. Though the IRS has other ways to inform the police if they can find anything you didn't tell them
hinkley 5y ago
The IRS got mixed up in anti-mob activity in Chicago. They couldn't get anything to stick locally, but they could get them on tax evasion. They didn't have to prove the money was obtained by a particular crime, they just had to prove they hadn't paid taxes on it. This conversation feels... familiar.

VWWHFSfQ 5y ago

It seems funny but what else are they supposed to do? Otherwise people would still be claiming dependents on kids gone since the 70s

650REDHAIR 5y ago
If your kid is kidnapped you should get a break…
- vikingerik 5y ago
  If you reward something, you get more of it. This creates a black market of arranging kidnappings for the tax break. The original topic about stolen property is the patch for the same kind of loophole. Without this rule, you could arrange to have something of value stolen in order to avoid a taxable transaction. Imagine your employer giving a bonus by leaving an envelope of cash conspicuously unguarded.
  - roughly 5y ago
    > If you reward something, you get more of it. This creates a black market of arranging kidnappings for the tax break. This is the kind of unhinged batshit economic thinking that leads to people dying because they can’t afford insulin.
    - ahzhou 5y ago
      It’s not that crazy. People sometimes sell their baby off to finance gambling debts. Some parents are terrible and we shouldn’t be giving them economic reason to have more children.
    - qeternity 5y ago
      No, it's not. This is a well studied phenomenon, and completely unrelated to healthcare affordability.
      - 5y ago

duxup 5y ago

I’m sure someone asked so… gotta have an answer.

treeman79 5y ago

My older half sister was kidnapped repeatedly by her bio parents. Legal custody seemed to be whomever had the kid in whichever state at any given time. One episode ended when her bio dad showed up at air port with a shotgun and bio-mom had convinced the out of state police to be on her side. After a night in jail anyway. Police made the bio-dad go home. My mom tailed her at school for a few years. Stopping another attempt before it ended. Was messed up every way possible.

kerneloftruth 5y ago
Who did your older sister prefer and want to live with... the biological parents, or the other family?
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]

kerneloftruth 5y ago

So there is a Child Tax Credit... of sorts. /s