4 ms·

Giving John such an explanation for why his salary is set as it is and what he can do to get a raise is not a problem for an employer. It's about the best possi

Giving John such an explanation for why his salary is set as it is and what he can do to get a raise is not a problem for an employer. It's about the best possible case for them really. The real problem for companies is when the explanation comes down to "Sandy negotiated harder than you", "Sandy got a higher offer from a competitor so we had to match it to keep her", "we're paying you significantly under the market rate and are hoping you don't notice or aren't too bothered by it", etc.

sjg007 5y ago
By not paying equivalent wages the company opens itself up to lawsuits. You can and should ask your peers what they make. This is totally legal and encouraged.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  > By not paying equivalent wages the company opens itself up to lawsuits. Depending on what you mean by "equivalent", yes it could make some claims of discrimination based on race/sex/etc slightly harder to defend against. It does not "open" a company to lawsuits as opposed to being closed to suits by paying equivalent wages. It is one of many many things that could be a factor in such cases. And a lot of companies decide it is worthwhile to do despite that. > You can and should ask your peers what they make. This is totally legal and encouraged. It's not encouraged by many companies, and some try to discourage it including by trying to get employees to agree not to, whether or not it's legal.
morgante 5y ago
Most people feel slighted when told that they're worse performers than someone nominally at the "same level" as them.
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
  If they ask why they get paid less and it's because they perform less and they understand that, it might hurt their feelings but at least most well adjusted people can accept it and even better work to improve themselves. What is much harder to accept, and builds resentment and apathy, is something that feels arbitrary or unjust.
  - sjg007 5y ago
    They can’t be paid less for the same job title or job description.
    - morgante 5y ago
      That is not remotely true. There is no law saying everyone with the same job title needs to be paid the same.
      - sjg007 5y ago
        Idk what you are talking about but not paying equally opens up a huge amount of discrimination liability. https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/california_equal_pay_act.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/california_equal_pay_act.htm
        morgante 5y ago
        You deeply misunderstand employment law if you think it prohibits people at the same level from being paid different amounts. It's illegal to pay differently on the basis of sex, race, or other protected classes. It's perfectly legal to pay differently on the basis of performance or anything that isn't a protected class. The vast, vast majority of workplaces in America pay people at the same level different amounts.
        theleftfielder 5y ago
        That is not at all what that law is saying. You can absolutely pay differently based on "bona fide factors" such as experience and job performance. Do you really think everyone with the title "software engineer" at a huge company varying from 0-20 YOE is going to be paid the same? No, they will be positioned differently within a salary band based on experience and job performance. You have clearly never managed a large team or organization and done comp planning for them.
        sjg007 5y ago

sjg007 5y ago

By not paying equivalent wages the company opens itself up to lawsuits. You can and should ask your peers what they make. This is totally legal and encouraged.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
> By not paying equivalent wages the company opens itself up to lawsuits. Depending on what you mean by "equivalent", yes it could make some claims of discrimination based on race/sex/etc slightly harder to defend against. It does not "open" a company to lawsuits as opposed to being closed to suits by paying equivalent wages. It is one of many many things that could be a factor in such cases. And a lot of companies decide it is worthwhile to do despite that. > You can and should ask your peers what they make. This is totally legal and encouraged. It's not encouraged by many companies, and some try to discourage it including by trying to get employees to agree not to, whether or not it's legal.

morgante 5y ago

Most people feel slighted when told that they're worse performers than someone nominally at the "same level" as them.

throwawaylinux 5y ago
If they ask why they get paid less and it's because they perform less and they understand that, it might hurt their feelings but at least most well adjusted people can accept it and even better work to improve themselves. What is much harder to accept, and builds resentment and apathy, is something that feels arbitrary or unjust.
- sjg007 5y ago
  They can’t be paid less for the same job title or job description.
  - morgante 5y ago
    That is not remotely true. There is no law saying everyone with the same job title needs to be paid the same.
    - sjg007 5y ago
      Idk what you are talking about but not paying equally opens up a huge amount of discrimination liability. https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/california_equal_pay_act.htm https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/california_equal_pay_act.htm
      - morgante 5y ago
        You deeply misunderstand employment law if you think it prohibits people at the same level from being paid different amounts. It's illegal to pay differently on the basis of sex, race, or other protected classes. It's perfectly legal to pay differently on the basis of performance or anything that isn't a protected class. The vast, vast majority of workplaces in America pay people at the same level different amounts.
      - theleftfielder 5y ago
        That is not at all what that law is saying. You can absolutely pay differently based on "bona fide factors" such as experience and job performance. Do you really think everyone with the title "software engineer" at a huge company varying from 0-20 YOE is going to be paid the same? No, they will be positioned differently within a salary band based on experience and job performance. You have clearly never managed a large team or organization and done comp planning for them.
        sjg007 5y ago