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They were correct. They're saying your phone service identity (I am X number on Y network plan). Not your personal identity (pictures of your kids and passwords

They were correct. They're saying your phone service identity (I am X number on Y network plan). Not your personal identity (pictures of your kids and passwords). Today if your phone fails, you can pop a sim in another phone and regain your phone service identity within minutes. No SIM, it could take days or even weeks.

takeda 5y ago
Yes, I don't understand how this could be welcomed by anyone else than Apple. It gives flashback from time when Verizon had CDMA network and their devices did not have SIM.
- lotsofpulp 5y ago
  What is the similarity to Verizon CDMA non SIM days if the phone is not locked to a carrier? Connecting to ATT/Verizon/T-Mobile/Vodafone should be as easy as choosing a Wifi Network.
  - deep-root 5y ago
    In the CDMA days your non-carrier locked phone had trouble handling travel across the US, and forget about service in another country. Carriers (Verizon and Sprint?) tried to improve it, but never really worked and the expense was high.
    - lotsofpulp 5y ago
      ATT/Tmobile users did not have a problem with service in another country, as they were not CDMA.
      - saratogacx 5y ago
        CDMA phones (early 2000's) had to be manually configured to attach to a network, I did support for Verizon at the time and I talked many people through the steps of reprogramming their phones onto the network. If you wanted to use your CDMA phone on another network you had to program it and re-program back when you were done. The steps were not public nor easy to navigate as it was not intended to be a user serviceable feature. Compared to AT&T's "take the card out and put it in the new phone" reprogramming it was night and day. You can say that eSIM is easier than the old CDMA days but it still isn't as easy as SIM swapping.
        lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Technically, I do not see why eSIM cannot be even easier than SIM swapping. I go to a conference or hotel, and they can figure out how to have me login to the wifi and pay them. Or not pay them if I am a certain level member of their rewards program or part of a certain group of people attending the conference. Other than legacy business contracts or lack of will by mobile networks to allow easy switching, it seems it should be just as easy to change which mobile network you are using. As a side note, I love the cash grab by ATT/Verizon/Tmobile right now where changing your device entitles them to collect an extra $30 "activation" fee from you. Zero labor cost, almost zero compute cost other than changing IMEI in their database, and you still have to part with $30.
gretch 5y ago
> Today if your phone fails, you can pop a sim in another phone and regain your phone service identity within minutes. No SIM, it could take days or even weeks. This doesn’t make any sense. Anything that can be done using a physical sim, you can do faster with e-sim (input data into fields). What if you don’t have another physical sim ready to go? It’s the middle of the night and stores are closed. Your car won’t start. You lost your wallet and don’t have currency. Traveling in a foreign nation and don’t know where the SIM store is. (Yes these are extreme situations, but that’s exactly when you need your phone to work)
- betwixthewires 5y ago
  You don't need a new SIM to which phones, that's the point. You only need a different phone. Who can do it faster? Me? Or the dude I just waited on hold for for 45 minutes (on someone else's phone i borrowed because I'm lucky enough to be around someone who is there to let me use their phone for 45 minutes) sitting in a call center somewhere?
hakfoo 5y ago
If I want to replace my phone now, I can pop the SIM card out of the slot, and slide it into the new device. Takes 3 minutes and importantly requires no contact with the carrier. With an eSIM, I'd have to-- at the very least-- do some sort of migration process through a carrier-provided resource. Maybe it's a web-based thing where I can sign in to their site on the old phone and get a QR code to scan on the new one, but I'd be unsurprised if at least some carriers say "gotta come into a store" or put up some sketchy "for your protection" roadblocks. This could be technical incompetence or a dark pattern, but I'm sure they want to keep anything related to bring-your-own-device to be a bit arcane and scary, to encourage customers to buy through the carrier.

takeda 5y ago

Yes, I don't understand how this could be welcomed by anyone else than Apple. It gives flashback from time when Verizon had CDMA network and their devices did not have SIM.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
What is the similarity to Verizon CDMA non SIM days if the phone is not locked to a carrier? Connecting to ATT/Verizon/T-Mobile/Vodafone should be as easy as choosing a Wifi Network.
- deep-root 5y ago
  In the CDMA days your non-carrier locked phone had trouble handling travel across the US, and forget about service in another country. Carriers (Verizon and Sprint?) tried to improve it, but never really worked and the expense was high.
  - lotsofpulp 5y ago
    ATT/Tmobile users did not have a problem with service in another country, as they were not CDMA.
    - saratogacx 5y ago
      CDMA phones (early 2000's) had to be manually configured to attach to a network, I did support for Verizon at the time and I talked many people through the steps of reprogramming their phones onto the network. If you wanted to use your CDMA phone on another network you had to program it and re-program back when you were done. The steps were not public nor easy to navigate as it was not intended to be a user serviceable feature. Compared to AT&T's "take the card out and put it in the new phone" reprogramming it was night and day. You can say that eSIM is easier than the old CDMA days but it still isn't as easy as SIM swapping.
      - lotsofpulp 5y ago
        Technically, I do not see why eSIM cannot be even easier than SIM swapping. I go to a conference or hotel, and they can figure out how to have me login to the wifi and pay them. Or not pay them if I am a certain level member of their rewards program or part of a certain group of people attending the conference. Other than legacy business contracts or lack of will by mobile networks to allow easy switching, it seems it should be just as easy to change which mobile network you are using. As a side note, I love the cash grab by ATT/Verizon/Tmobile right now where changing your device entitles them to collect an extra $30 "activation" fee from you. Zero labor cost, almost zero compute cost other than changing IMEI in their database, and you still have to part with $30.

gretch 5y ago

> Today if your phone fails, you can pop a sim in another phone and regain your phone service identity within minutes. No SIM, it could take days or even weeks. This doesn’t make any sense. Anything that can be done using a physical sim, you can do faster with e-sim (input data into fields). What if you don’t have another physical sim ready to go? It’s the middle of the night and stores are closed. Your car won’t start. You lost your wallet and don’t have currency. Traveling in a foreign nation and don’t know where the SIM store is. (Yes these are extreme situations, but that’s exactly when you need your phone to work)

betwixthewires 5y ago
You don't need a new SIM to which phones, that's the point. You only need a different phone. Who can do it faster? Me? Or the dude I just waited on hold for for 45 minutes (on someone else's phone i borrowed because I'm lucky enough to be around someone who is there to let me use their phone for 45 minutes) sitting in a call center somewhere?

hakfoo 5y ago

If I want to replace my phone now, I can pop the SIM card out of the slot, and slide it into the new device. Takes 3 minutes and importantly requires no contact with the carrier. With an eSIM, I'd have to-- at the very least-- do some sort of migration process through a carrier-provided resource. Maybe it's a web-based thing where I can sign in to their site on the old phone and get a QR code to scan on the new one, but I'd be unsurprised if at least some carriers say "gotta come into a store" or put up some sketchy "for your protection" roadblocks. This could be technical incompetence or a dark pattern, but I'm sure they want to keep anything related to bring-your-own-device to be a bit arcane and scary, to encourage customers to buy through the carrier.