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North Korea's Loch Ness Monster (2016)
- jmnicolas 5y agoI'm fascinated by North Korea. I think the author shouldn't be so smug about seeing through their propaganda. We have such a sophisticated propaganda in the west that it's much harder to see it. In comparison NK propaganda is refreshingly childish, funny I would say.
- FpUser 5y ago>"We have such a sophisticated propaganda in the west" Do not flatter. It is quite visible and primitive.
- xwolfi 5y agoDude the fact you and him even accept the concept of "the west" is a testament to relentless and constant propaganda. That there is a unified front of "mostly white people" all sharing american values, guns and private prison alike. Even China loves this idea of the western "box" they can put me, a French, in to associate all my ideas to every stupid american policies. From Moscow to Los Angeles, everything west of China is divided, subtle and different. There is no west and therefore no western propaganda. And I d say the american propaganda seems to work better than the French one. Where we try convince there is diversity, all you say is that "western propaganda is primitive" :(
- FpUser 5y agoThere IS a more or less common understanding about what "Western" in the context mean. You want to waste time arguing semantics - be my guest. I have zero desire.
- lucian1900 5y ago“Western” is a shortcut for the dominant alliance of imperialist countries: US, UK, most of Western Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. Materially also Israel and Japan, but rarely in rhetoric. The concept is used both to critique the imperialist countries and to strengthen their alliance, by different people.
- nradov 5y agoRather odd to describe Canada and New Zealand as imperialist. How far do their empires extend?
- lucian1900 5y agoCanadian finance capital own a great deal of the worldwide mining operations, if not a majority by now. They extract a great deal of value from poor countries through unequal exchange. New Zealand is a less prolific exporter of capital, but does it all the same.
- jmnicolas 5y agoIt's very much sophisticated, it has several layers. What you call primitive are only the first layers.
- FpUser 5y agoBig brother, is that you?
- throwawaylinux 5y ago
- jd115 5y agoWhat's another example? That the sun rises in the east? Oh, the fools who fall for propaganda!
- throwawaylinux 5y agoUnlike this Korean wall or any evidence that Trump colluded with Putin, you've seen the sun rising in the east.
- jd115 5y agoWe must live on different planets. There are literally mountains of evidence publicly available, and many thoroughly researched books by respected lawyers and political scientists on the subject. You can't live in denial of the obvious and at the same time have the chutzpah to accuse others of lacking evidence. Who's the propaganda victim here?
- throwawaylinux 5y ago> We must live on different planets. This was my point. > There are literally mountains of evidence publicly available, and many thoroughly researched books by respected lawyers and political scientists on the subject. The Mueller report didn't find any such mountains. Some of the biggest peddlers of the conspiracy theory have been recently been forced into embarrassing back downs https://nypost.com/2021/11/09/ex-state-dept-spox-slams-schiff-over-russia-probe-on-the-view/ https://nypost.com/2021/11/09/ex-state-dept-spox-slams-schif... > You can't live in denial of the obvious and at the same time have the chutzpah to accuse others of lacking evidence. What I can say for certain is that looking past all the bluster and propaganda and claims of what exists, I have never seen evidence proving Trump colluded with Putin to hack the election. > Who's the propaganda victim here? The people who believe there is evidence Trump/campaign colluded with Russia are.
- throw6746 5y ago> In comparison NK propaganda is refreshingly childish, funny I would say. I think you're yourself falling for North Korea propaganda, the reality there is nothing childish: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-china-sex-slavery-idUSKCN1SQ105 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-china-sex-slav...
- varajelle 5y agoI don't see the link between your article and propaganda. That seems unrelated.
- interpenetrate 5y agoThe Korea Future Initiative is unsurprisingly funded by NED, making this article propaganda indeed.
- scoopertrooper 5y agoThis is a fairly deceptive statement. The Korea Future Initiative received a grand total of $50,000 (about 16% of its total fundraising) in 2020 from the NED. https://www.ned.org/region/asia/north-korea-2020/ https://www.ned.org/region/asia/north-korea-2020/ https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search?p_p_id=uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet&p_p_lifecycle=2&p_p_state=maximized&p_p_mode=view&p_p_resource_id=%2Faccounts-resource&p_p_cacheability=cacheLevelPage&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_objectiveId=A10908173&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_priv_r_p_mvcRenderCommandName=%2Faccounts-and-annual-returns&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_priv_r_p_organisationNumber=5122224 https://register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/chari...
- wayoutthere 5y agoWe’re just brainwashed to support a capitalist system rather than a communist one. We only don’t see the propaganda because we’ve been subjected to it since birth. The fact that Elon Musk has fanboys should tell you all you need to know.
- Garlef 5y ago> We only don’t see the propaganda because we’ve been subjected to it since birth. That's precisely the joke here. >> We have such a sophisticated propaganda in the west that it's much harder to see it
- hereforphone 5y agoIt's not for lack of trying.
- stickfigure 5y agoIt's amazing how every time an article like this comes up, somebody tries to equivocate it with the west. It's not the same. The difference is that if you go around in North Korea (or in China, these days) saying Dear Leader is clown, somebody shows up at your doorstep with guns. Here it's a national sport. The difference is the people with guns. Ask Denise Ho.
- mempko 5y agoAnd yet here we are in the USA with the most prisoners per capita of any country in the world. Turns out we have many people with guns here. The security forces in the US are well funded.
- simonbarker87 5y agoThe NK situation will resolve in some way in the future and whatever the outcome our descendants will look back with sadness that we didn’t come to a solution sooner - it is so clearly hell on Earth.
- hulitu 5y agoDo you speak from experience ?
- simonbarker87 5y agoNo but I’m not sure I need first hand experience on the topic to have that opinion. There is enough smoke around NK that the fire is clearly pretty big.
- wayoutthere 5y agoFunny, many Europeans say the same about America. Not defending NK but the situation has persisted because nobody wants to deal with the flood of refugees a collapsed regime would create. I wouldn’t count on the situation resolving itself in our lifetimes.
- causi 5y agoAmericans have trouble paying for healthcare. That is true and terrible. It is also not equivalent to having ten percent of your population starve to death in a famine or being executed for religious proselytizing.
- furyg3 5y agoThis exactly. I like comparing the absolute bottom denominator. I would never want to find myself in a US prison. They appear to be some of the worst in the 'developed' world. I would easily choose a US prison over a North Korean prison, and one could even make a decent case of time in a US prison vs time as an average peasant in North Korea.
- 5y ago
- xivzgrev 5y agoI’m disappointed there’s no backstory on the author, how / why did he get into North Korea?
- kingcharles 5y agoI knew a Western guy who ran tours inside NK. He gave tourists the government-sanctioned version, but he told me because they trusted him he had way more freedom than most Westerners and had traveled solo extensively through the country.
- ryanmercer 5y agoNon-American tourists go to North Korea all the time, the tours are just heavily controlled by the government. It's a proper industry.
- dundarious 5y agoThere are also tours normally geared towards Chinese tourists, but that are staffed with English-speakers (both the Chinese tour guide and the North Korean guides/handlers), so English-speaking Westerners can get a heavily controlled tour that's just a bit less controlled than the one typically offered to Westerners. The crossing into NK is made at Dandong in China, and after crossing the river, you take a regular internal NK train to Pyongyang, instead of taking a foreigners-only plane or train direct from Beijing to Pyongyang. US citizens used to take these tours, but I think it's probably even more insane to do that nowadays.
- yostrovs 5y agoFrom his website: "I’m Elliott. I’m the tour director at North Korea tour operator Uri Tours. I travel a lot myself, sometimes to the unusual, weird and wacky. Earth Nutshell is where I share my experiences. Interested in visiting North Korea for yourself? Shoot me an email". He's from Tazmania.
- jpmoral 5y agoThe North Korean claim that the wall is only visible from their side reminds me of the Ha-ha: >A ha-ha (French: hâ-hâ or saut de loup) is a recessed landscape design element that creates a vertical barrier (particularly on one side) while preserving an uninterrupted view of the landscape beyond from the other side https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ha-ha
- mattmoose21 5y agoI think this would be more of a ho-ho.
- acqbu 5y agoGreat read, thank you
- stevespang 5y ago[dead]